40mm APFSDS.

[ydnum303]

Hi All,

Herewith photos of an APFSDS projectile. The chap I got it from used to work in the experimental ammunition department at Enfield, and said that it came out of one of the magazines when Enfield closed down. He said that he thought it came to Enfield from Swynnerton (although another very knowledgeable person to whom I showed it thought it might have come from Fort Halstead). The front band is 40.1mm in diameter and 6.68mm wide, the rear band (which is 17mm wide) is 41.6mm diameter at the front, flaring out to 44.0mm at the rear. Both bands are of white plastic material.

The body (which is made of 3 aluminium petals) is 93.6mm long, whilst the length of the dart is about 148mm.
The only markings on it is the number C4/57No.13671/8, which appears on the lower part of each petal, engraved by an electric pen. Could the "4/57" be a date?

Does anyone know anything about this projectile; what case did it go in? Is it a scaled-down version of something larger, and if so, what? What weapon was it intended for?

Any input gratefully received!

Thanks in advance,
Roger.

 

[Przezdzieblo]

Sabot is quite similar to that of 120 mm L23 APFSDS. Letter "C" might be related to that calibre as well - I recall post by @iwasthere when he mentioned that. Thus it might be experimental FSDS used as mule for bigger 120 mm project. /57 definitely is not a date, research sabots used in 50's were of different kind.

 

[Spaceinvader]

I’ve got a nearly identical (or possibly completely identical) set of sabots, also 40mm but they’re fired without bands or the penetrator. I’ve tried ID’ing them previously but with no luck.

 

[proditto]

Many years ago I was given a similar projectile by an officer who was concearned with UK experimental ammuntion. He told me that as airfield defence, amongst others, had at that time 40/70 Bofors anti aircraft guns it had been decided that a limited AP ability would be usefull if the airfield was attacked on the ground. These APDSFS rounds were part of this short lived experiment.

 

[weberoed]

General Dynamics loads these now. Not sure if US or foreign client
The had shudown the M 919 DU line and re tooled for the 40mm

 

[US-Subs]

No sabots on these, so without a specific match many of them are difficult to ID - but something ought to work with a 40mm...

 

[SG500]

Thanks for the replies, interesting thread.

In the days when I collected such things I had a number of these 40mm in different lengths, now long gone from my collection.

Group picture




Long version



Short version (interesting to note the variations between the short version at the start of this one - 5 vs 4 blade fin, sealing band).



Long version with air holes in front (pic taken from elsewhere on BOCN not part of my collection)

 

[ydnum303]

many thanks to all those who have replied to this thread.

Dave,
Thanks for these very interesting photos; never realised there would be so many varieties out there!

Do you know when they were being experimented with? Did they go in a case, and if so, which, or were they separately loaded? If it was for a Bofors L70 case, would it have been the full-length one, or the shortened case?

Roger.

 

[SG500]

many thanks to all those who have replied to this thread.

Dave,
Thanks for these very interesting photos; never realised there would be so many varieties out there!

Do you know when they were being experimented with? Did they go in a case, and if so, which, or were they separately loaded? If it was for a Bofors L70 case, would it have been the full-length one, or the shortened case?

Roger.

I never found out info about any expt programs, the info given by Proditto above may be a clue possibly. The don't fit in a Bofors case as the rear sealing band gets in the way. I had always assumed they would have been fired from a test barrel with a separate charge but that is pure guess work. They are a totally different profile to any CTA APFSDS that I've seen so I assume, although don't know for sure, that they aren't CTA.
Dave.

 

[Spaceinvader]

The dart on the far left of your photo isn’t for an APFSDS round, it’s a large anti-material flechette likely from AAI, I’ve got 2 myself one of which is identical to yours. There was an IAA thread some years ago when I was trying to ID mine.