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German First war Gr.14 Projectile driving bad....

starshell

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Good evening,

I have a first war German Gr.14 HE projectile missing its driving band and wanted to try to have a new Copper one cast onto the shell.....harder than I expected.
Trying to find a casting Co. which would take on a small job like this is nigh on impossible and sand casting Copper has its problems.

Which leads me to ask if this particular shell type was ever produced with Zinc Alloy or Mazak driving band? I can't find any reference to this in my minimal books and manuals so would greatly appreciate any help from members. If there is such an example, I may be able to do this myself.

I have seen similar shell with two bands, one being a thinner Copper type above a Zinc Alloy band.
Many thanks in advance,
Cheers!
 
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Many thanks pzgr40,

That's a good suggestion and the link to the Copper stockists will help a great deal. Something I will certainly look into.
Thank you.
 
Could anyone tell me if this shell was ever made with a Zinc Alloy / Mazak driving band/
Many thanks in advance.
 
I'm not sure if you have scrap yards where you live, but if they do and they will sell metals, You figure how this your band needs to be, and how wide, then you buy a piece of copper bussbar, or copper plate, then you use a bandsaw or similar to cut the strip for your band to the proper width. Holding the beginning of the band in the band groove by clamping them in place in a vice, you then bend the copper bar around the projectile using the vice and a hammer, you work it around the body, hammering it into the groove. when its around, trim the end to length so it will slip into the groove touching the beginning. with the split at the top, use the vice to hold the ends together, and solder the ends together.

Turn in a lathe to proper diameter and shape. Have a Guinness.
 
Many thanks to all for the suggestions. I'm now looking into these to get it right first time (if that's possible!).
Will post pics as we go....
Thanks again!
 
Hi Starshell, I done an 18pdr a while ago, I found some lighting conductor copper strip, cut it to length and then hammered it round cut off the surplus and hammered it in tight, I didn't even have to solder it and then put it on the lathe and turned it to the right profile or near enough, and I was surprised I couldn't see the join.
Cheers
Andy
 

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Many thanks Andysarmoury,

Great job, well done.

Just a quick question....did you find that as you hammered the Copper strip into the groove, it expanded into the undercut ok? I guess I'm concerned that if I hammer the Copper too much, I might hammer it below the finished profile limits.
Cheers!
 
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Many thanks Andysarmoury,

Great job, well done.

Just a quick question....did you find that as you hammered the Copper strip into the groove, it expanded into the undercut ok? I guess I'm concerned that if I hammer the Copper too much, I might hammer it below the finished profile limits.
Cheers!

Yes it expended ok and I made sure I had it a bit thicker just in case that happened and all went well. forgot to say I did heat the copper up before hand to anneal it and good luck.
Cheers
Andy
 
Many thanks Andy.
Been swotting up on Copper, its properties, annealing, quenching etc, so although far from being an expert, I'll give it a shot.
Cheers!

On the subject of Copper bands....anyone have any idea where I might find Copper flat bar 13mm wide and between 8-10mm thick? spent a few hours pouring over websites, metal stockists, Busbar stockists, scrap yards, etc, to no avail. Closest I've got to 13mm is 12.7 (1/2") but I need it slightly wider to fill the under cut in the shell groove and of course turning on lathe to correct profile/size.
Only option I seem to have at the moment is to buy a bar at 15mm wide and get it machined down but cost is a hindrance here....£99 plus VAT for a bar 14" long.

I'm beginning to think Copper is the new Gold!
Many thanks in advance chaps!
 
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Many thanks Andy.
Been swotting up on Copper, its properties, annealing, quenching etc, so although far from being an expert, I'll give it a shot.
Cheers!

On the subject of Copper bands....anyone have any idea where I might find Copper flat bar 13mm wide and between 8-10mm thick? spent a few hours pouring over websites, metal stockists, Busbar stockists, scrap yards, etc, to no avail. Closest I've got to 13mm is 12.7 (1/2") but I need it slightly wider to fill the under cut in the shell groove and of course turning on lathe to correct profile/size.
Only option I seem to have at the moment is to buy a bar at 15mm wide and get it machined down but cost is a hindrance here....£99 plus VAT for a bar 14" long.

I'm beginning to think Copper is the new Gold!
Many thanks in advance chaps!

I have a bit left over from doing my 18pdr its 25mm wide by 6.5mm thick and 35.5 long if interested give me a PM.
Cheers
Andy
 

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Starshell

City Electrical factors (CEF) sell lightning conductors they have 25mm x 6mm x 1m /upwards, worth enquiring if the do any thicker conductor sizes.

cheers womble
 
Starshell

City Electrical factors (CEF) sell lightning conductors they have 25mm x 6mm x 1m /upwards, worth enquiring if the do any thicker conductor sizes.

cheers womble

Many thanks Womble, I'll give them a shout.
Cheers!
 
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Good morning all,
Just a progress report (for those interested) on the rebanding of a German 10.5cm Gr.14 projectile I am working on.
This lovely 10.5 came to me with an oversized driving band, well machined, but was actually a strip of thin copper which had been glued over the band groove. It was 25mm wide (as opposed to 13mm) and although it looked ok, being a stickler for accuracy, I wanted to restore the band to as it would have been when made. Something I've never attempted in Copper before and it proved no easy task....

Thanks to another member on this site (Many thanks! You know who you are!) I had a nice piece of Copper for the task, and asked a Blacksmith friend to anneal it and hammer into the band groove. Unfortunately, it hadn't been hammered in enough to fill the groove undercut, and although the join had been fettled and Copper welded, it was doomed to fail. The weld didn't go deep enough, and the new band was likely to slip, which was the case when set up on the lathe....The Copper weld was turned out, the band sprung out and slipped. Bah....

Fortunately, the band having been turned 2-3 mm down meant I was able to use that to my advantage. The band was thinner (but still within profile tolerances) so was taken to work to make use of the Anvil, presses, etc. There, it was cold hammered using a ball pein hammer. This had the effect of 'spreading' the Copper into the undercut, but the force needed was quite considerable. I went for the cold hammering option, annealing would have softened the Copper and the danger there is I may have hammered below tolerance accidently. As you can see in image 5, hammering caused the Copper strip to expand, and at the stage where hammering was almost complete, the strip had almost 2" surplus.
The band, although looking a right mess at this point, is now firmly seated in the groove and undercut, and the Copper weld (Mk2...) penetrates down to the band recess. I have around 1.5mm surplus material to turn down to the finished profile.

Hopefully, when it's finally turned down it should (we hope) look as per original....
The images above show various stages (but not the tears shed!). Still, it's always a good learning curve and much has been learnt during this project.
Will post images of completed shell once machined.

Enjoy!
Cheers.
 
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Well done Dylan It will look great once its turned down and glad it worked out in the end.
Cheers
Andy
 
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Many thanks Andy. I'll be happy when its all done and on display.
Cheers!
Dylan

I am sure it will be ok I had the same happen to me and had to re do it as didn't hammer it hard enough round to get it in the grove, my ears were ringing for days after lol.
Cheers
Andy
 
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Finally....
The 10.5cm is back from the machine shop, and looking very neat.
This shell caused a few headaches during this entire process but pushing through it, I'm really pleased with the end result.
Perseverance pays off sometimes I guess, and another nice piece returned to original.
Many thanks to those members who provided advice, materials, drawings, etc. Much appreciated as ever.
Cheers!
 
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