FFE Certificate

[panther1]

Hello
I am asking if there is anybody who would be licensed to give FFE certificates. I will give you a horror story as to why I am asking this.
Last year I attended Beltring for the second time, because I knew I would end up buying some type of ordnance, I wrote letters to The minister responsible for Import Permits, I spoke to the Customs Department, I spoke to the Police. After all this the general consensus was If I declared the article at the airport as I arrived I should be right. First mistake never believe these people. I duly went to Beltring and purchased a nice Carl Gustoff HE round. It was completely empty, you could dismantle the fuze, and the projectile was empty, so I thought it would be right, second mistake, don't think, know what you are doing.
When I packed the round I made sure it was in pieces, and when I arrived I declared it as instructed. That seemed to go alright, so I applied for the permit. Next thing I am getting a phone call from the Australian Federal Police, they wanted an interview, and me thinking I had done everything by the book agreed . Third mistake never, and I mean never trust a Policeman. After an interview that was reminiscent of a bad cop movie, I was charged with importing a dangerous item. I then had to get a lawyer and fight the charge. The first charge was dropped and a second was taken up. Recklessly importing a Tier 2 article without a permit. Off to court I go and get the Magistrate from hell. The prosecutor said that the penalty should, be on advice from the Commonwealth Prosecutors Office, $500 fine and no criminal conviction. The bastard of a Magistrate gave me $2,000, and a criminal conviction, which led to the Police revoking my firearms license. So now I am off to court again to hopefully get my license back.
The moral of the story is don't believe anything a politician , police man, or Government Official says, do it all yourself.
This year I was lucky I had a senior sergent from the British Army, who deals in Ammunition, give me a FFE certificate, but next year I am not sure if he will be at Beltring, so can I ask again would anybody on this board, and who will be at Beltring be able to help me out?

Thanks again Great site

Iain King

[waffenamt]

Bloody Hell Iain,
Im sorry to hear of your plight.
Maybe some of the boys here can give you some advice on this?,its beyond my scope im afraid.

good luck


waff

[LCplCombat]

I'm not sure what authority an Free From Explosives certificate carries, legally. All it means is that when YOU collect it the person who completed it is certifying that the item it refers to is FFE.

for example: I recently bought two 5.56mm ammo boxes which contained an FFE each. They were dated a few years earlier and in that time anything could have been stored in them. If I had been stopped by Plod and something untoward was contained therein (by myself or some terrorist moving explosives or ammunition about) the comeback would have been focused on the guy issuing the FFE. I think they are used as an "authority to issue" rather than a "certificate of compliance".

[Fuzeman]

It all depends who issued the FFE and there are so many people who think they have the authority to do so , im surprised that your two ammo boxes had FFE , several years ago at a Military fair in Gloucester , the organiser wanted an FFE sticker on each round of ammunition , that he wanted i believe 10 p each sticker was a joke These cerificates Army form G 904 to mean anything would have be signed by a Ammo Tech from either the Royal Logistics Corps or a form from a competent civilian Explosives engineer.

[LCplCombat]

I wonder if any competent authority was involved in Panther1s investigation and prosecution. I cant understand why he was prosecuted if the object was inert? Its ammunition or an explosive therefore he is guilty? Kind of what you were saying Fuzeman. Just because a copper said "This is ammunition go to jail". Even if it has an FFE doesnt make it right, the copper should have refered it upwards if he had doubts.

[Fuzeman]

I was stopped from boarding the Channel islands ferry , several years ago because of some inert ordnance , taken by me to go to the occupation museum In Guernsey and to the police bomb squad for their trainning , (as it was a present i didnt tell them) , anyway special branch arrived at the scene , and checked that what i had was actually inert, they even checked with the Guernsey police , who knew me thankfully
From that day to this if carrying any ordnance what so ever i carry papers showing im a collector and museum representative . The customs girl at Poole was very attractive , but wasnt there the next time i came through, she did get a xmas card from me .

[panther1]

Hi Guys
The Carl Gustoff round was inspected by a Warrant Officer from The Ordnance Corps, but he didn't pull the fuze to pieces as he felt it was too dangerous. He stated that he couldn't say for sure that the clockwork detonator was removed. even though I showed the Customs Officers that all stuff had been taken out of the fuze, by dismantling it. None of this was presented by the prosecution, and they refused to give us access to the round to prove my case as the wanker from Ordnance deemed the round too dangerous to touch. The round was destroyed before my case went to court, thus removing any chance for me to prove my case, real Gestapo tactics. The thing that really peeved me, was that I showed the idiots from Customs the empty hole where the "clockwork detonator" was situated to prove it had been removed, but they all got amnesia and where they wrote it down got lost, strangely. The Federal Police who interviewed me were from a new section set up at the airport, so I got the impression that they were trying to prove themselves.

Iain

[LCplCombat]

I take it you didn't seek legal representation in court? Your lawyer would have ripped them apart.

[BMG50]

I take it you didn't seek legal representation in court? Your lawyer would have ripped them apart.

You will be surprised at the expertise of so-called police firearm and ordnance experts who are asked to attend court cases. Its seems that you got a bit of a raw deal. A lawyer would have wiped the floor with them and you would have got compensation as well. As for trust of officials i wouldn't trust any with a barge pole. Use your own discretion and advice from other collectors experiences etc.
Could you not appeal.

[panther1]

Hi
I did have a lawyer, that cost me a lot, but the prosecution had the Magistrate in their pocket from the start. It was like a bad american show. I could appeal but it would cost too much money. I have to go to court to try get my firearm license, that is going to cost a arm and a leg as it is. I wish my lawyer could get into them, but law over here still consists of gentlemen talking to each other in a civilised way, except Magistrates can insult and humiliate with impunity.
To get stuff imported into Australia I have to have an FFE for each bit ifordnance, it doesn't have to be Defence Force personnel, just a recognised expert in the field of explosives and ammunition.
I certainly learned an expensive lesson.
The reason I started this discussion I was hoping to find an expert among the people who work in UXO, aren't there a couple of guys who do that?

Iain