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    Oddball Case !

    Here is one for the experts on the forum.
    This item has me completely baffled, I have been told that it is one of a few thousand made for a specific purpose but that is all the information I was given.

    Any light you can throw on this would be appreciated.

    Case has a standard headstamp of TW 43 and measures 104.2mm long with a calibre of approximately 10mm and I should add that it appears to have been a standard 50 cal case except for the longer length.

    Chris
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    Last edited by Chris 42 RQ; 30th December 2008 at 09:28 AM. Reason: Add info.

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    Odd case

    Hi Chris

    An interesting case, what is its provenance?

    Two possibilities, neither of which seem likely though.

    Around 1942/43 the US were playing with high velocity experiments at Frankford Arsenal based on the .50 BMG case. These were the T5 series and the T5E1 was a .50 necked to .30 using a very long tapered neck as in your case. The only problem is that yours is not a .50/.30!

    The other is that Britain conducted a series of taper bore experiments based on the Gerlich and Janacek principles in the pre WW2 period, using ,5 Vickers and .55 Boys cases in calibres between 9 and 11mm. These continued during the war with 20mm and of course the 2 Pdr Littlejohn adaptors. However, apart from the date being wrong, I think it unlikely that the .50BMG case would have been used for this.

    Do you have any other info about your case that might narrow things down?

    Regards
    TonyE

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    Question Oddball case.

    Hi Tony and thank you for your theories.

    I have measured the case and the base dimensions are that of a standard wartime issue 50 cal cart.
    I was told that it was circa 1950 using either wartime stock which was either modified or previously modified stock left over from the war ????

    Chris

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    Burney

    I suggested to Chris that this case may possibly be connected with the experiments conducted around 1945-47 using the recoiless principle designed by Burney. These were tried in both small arms and of course the larger calibres like the 3.45". There was also a 20mm shoulder fired weapon.

    The initial SAA trials were with a long case necked to 6mm, and I have an unfinished one of these in my collection that originally came from Kynoch.

    It is shown with a .303 for comparison.


    Subsequently the calibre was increased to 7mm and the case shortened. The propellant was held in a clear celluloid bag and the case drilled in to allow gas escape through the venturi. Some cases were maded as two piece cases with the two halves screwed together.

    The bullets were exceptionally long for the calibre.

    Picture shows both types of case and an undrilled one.



    Projectiles.


    Of course, none of these small calibre types ever saw service but the 3.45" recoiless gun did in limited numbers.

    Regards
    TonyE

    PS I should add that the 7mm photos are not from my collection!

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    Thumbs up Rare items.

    Very nice items and also very informative Tony-thank you for showing those very rare items.

    Chris

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    Hi Chris, Tony refers to the T5 .30/.50 so I've attached a picture just for comparison purposes.
    The photo shows:

    .55/303X99B Boys training round (headstamp K 37)

    10X108 XM277 (headstamp FA 61) Head diameter is the same as a standard .5

    7.62X119 This is the 30/50 T5 (no headstamp). Head diameter is the same as a standard .5 (Tony please correct me if I'm wrong here - I don't know if this is a T5 or a T5E1 but am aware that the head diameter and length of case are the same for the 2 sorts)

    12.7 X 99 just shown for scale

    Clearly the XM277 is the correct calibre but looks nothing like the case you have.

    All INERT and perfectly legal to own.

    Hope this helps.

    Dave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyE View Post

    Subsequently the calibre was increased to 7mm and the case shortened. The propellant was held in a clear celluloid bag and the case drilled in to allow gas escape through the venturi. Some cases were maded as two piece cases with the two halves screwed together.

    The bullets were exceptionally long for the calibre.

    Picture shows both types of case and an undrilled one.



    Projectiles.


    Of course, none of these small calibre types ever saw service but the 3.45" recoiless gun did in limited numbers.

    Regards
    TonyE

    PS I should add that the 7mm photos are not from my collection!
    Great pics, Tony, I wouldn't mind one of those....

    Are you sure that the gun for them was recoilless? I have a vague memory niggling at me that the perforations were to allow the gases to expand into a larger chamber to give a kind of high/low pressure system, for extra efficiency, but I could be wrong.

 

 

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