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  1. #1
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    Not a good way to start the new year

    Saw this on my local news last nite.
    Poor guy wasn't thinking straight.
    Police kill armed man in vintage German uniform

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...writethru.html

  2. #2
    MODERATOR/ORDNANCE APPROVED
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    My main interest is re-enactment and that is precisely the reason I dont dare own a weapon. I wont the them a reason to shoot me in my own home.
    "Any live or recovered ordnance in my posts has been dealt with by trained EOD personnel"

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
    I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
    All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
    Time for tea.

  3. #3
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    Hi,
    very very sad but i dont understand why the guy was shot nor why the police in this country would shoot you in your own home. If asked to put the weapon down, just do that. I dont do re enactor stuff but if i did it would not stop me from owning shotguns, rifles or deac weapons. There must be something more to it. Surely the police would have asked the guy to put the rifle down? If the rifle was capable of firing blanks then perhaps it could chamber a live round and maybe thats what caused a problem to the police. I am certainly not condoning or defending what the police did and perhaps the police could have handled it better but you must ask why did not the guy put the rifle down?
    If you wish to re enact then you need the correct bits of kit and so a rifle for a soldier seems to fit the bill, deactivated of course. However rules in one country are not the same as another as are levels of deactivation.
    I feel its a very sad situation that went too far, possibly on both sides and what a cost.

    Andy

  4. #4
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    He had a bayonet fitted to it which must have made the cops react differently and we don't know what HIS reaction was or how close they were when they pulled the trigger. The cops can't tell if a weapon is loaded with blank or ball, they have to assume ball. Having said that if you happened to have a stabby rifle to hand when you her some yahoos breaking your door down, shouting at the top of there lungs, what would your reaction be?
    "Any live or recovered ordnance in my posts has been dealt with by trained EOD personnel"

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
    I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
    All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
    Time for tea.

  5. #5
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    Hi again,
    a very difficult one but if armed cops ever had to do that to me i think i would drop said weapon and put up arms, after all, i would know that i could not shoot them, especially if i could see they were cops. However, its a very difficult lesson to learn with not much chance of a second chance and decisions being made in a very short amount of thinking time.
    Also, gun culture in the USA is not the same as it is here, not having the right to bear arms to defend ones self in the constitution does i think make a difference. Maybe that makes the police in the USA a little less tolerant of such cases, ime not sure.
    Either way, not very nice and a sad outcome which i am sure could have been avoided.

    Actually, one point which crosses my mind is why the police always seem to shoot to kill? Why dont they try to disable or wound the perpetrator? Surely this would have been a better outcome?

    Andy

  6. #6
    MODERATOR/ORDNANCE APPROVED
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    The "shoot to kill" and not "shoot to disable" is to protect you and those around you in case he survives to let a round off. It saves on being sued for medical bills too. It's more about aiming at the center of mass to ensure that you get a hit rather than aiming to kill. Death is a side effect of bad human design in that most of the important bits are stored in the center of mass.
    Last edited by LCplCombat; 4th January 2009 at 01:26 AM.
    "Any live or recovered ordnance in my posts has been dealt with by trained EOD personnel"

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
    I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
    All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
    Time for tea.

  7. #7
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    If you look at the situation..
    1. He lived in an apartment on or near the university. The is a very highly concentrated area of people in a large city.

    2. Seattle is a very liberal anti-gun area

    3. He was outside earlier firing his gun.This is against the law.

    4. He was outside of his apt. when the police shot him.

    5. He was warned to drop the weapon...but I'm sure reaction time by the police was minimal.

    This was not a case of cops kicking the door in, a guy sitting on a sofa and getting shot.
    Whether the gun be real,airsoft, paintball, etc.... He should have immediately dropped the rifle. I'd wager an autopsy will find high levels of alcohol. It just makes no sense that he didn't drop the gun.
    Now...as for the police reaction... seven shots seems a bit nuts. But given the craziness that the police have to put up with nowadays...I'm sure that nothing wrong in procedure happened.. But you darn well know the family of the victim will file lawsuits against the City, police dept and everything else in line.

    With gun ownership along comes responsibility...as with driving, parenting..or whatever else. There are laws and guidelines that we're supposed to follow. There are consequences for the wrong actions. Sadly,the poor fellow was having a bit too much fun and did something really dumb.

  8. #8
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    Yeah,saw the bulletin earlier.
    I havn`t drawn a conclusion yet but im annoyed how the press are dogging him over owning `Nazi items`

    I hope they dont ever see my collection?........

    waff

  9. #9
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    I think you nailed it Waff.
    The only reason this made national headlines was the so called "Nazi" tie-in. Cops shoot people more than we hear about. Most of the time, it makes the back page of a local paper only.
    Media doing it's job.. Guns bad...Nazi's bad.....same crap they've been preaching for a long time.
    Better burn your uniforms and bury the mp-40 in the back yard....or if you wish, mail 'em to me and I'll dispose of them.

  10. #10
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    His own stupid mistake. Don't ever turn a gun into the direction of a police officer; you are giving the poor man no choice.

    The same happened in Amsterdam a couple of years ago when a drunk tourist started pointing a -what later appeared to be a toy gun- into the crowd. The police officers asked him once to drop his weapon and then shot him on the spot, hitting him a dozen times. So even in a "liberal" country like Holland there is this "take no unnececery risks" approach. You do not neccecerily have to go to the USA to get shot in that way.

 

 
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