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Crayford queries.

SG500

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Attached are a few pictures of some 40mm Crayford rounds.

The one on the left is a "standard" one for comparison purposes.
The one in the middle has a very unusual profile. When unscrewed the base is solid copper. I know of one other round idential to this one.
The one on the right is rimless. I know of 2 other rounds like this one.

Does anyone have any further information on these unusual Crayfords. The 2 rounds on the right do not appear to be standard and do not have any markings on them. I am assuming that as there are other similar rounds out there that came from completely different sources that these are genuine and not made up rounds (they certainly feel and look like real ones).

All inert and legal with nothing nasty in them.

Dave.
 

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1.59 Projectiles

No 2 is incendiary I believe. Herewith a sketch. In my time I have probably seen half a dozen, all with the copper base rather than the steel referred to in the diagram.
 

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Crayford queries

None I'm afraid. The only other version I have seen was a 'regular' case with a projectile fuzed No 131 (the fast, fabric sensitive job).
 
Crayford Queries - 37mm Etc

With one exception I only have diagrams from the usual Handbooks, Treatises and Textbooks. The exception is the Cart, QF, 1 1/4 Pdr, Practice (Mark I) /N/. I expect the gun is a little known bit of Navy ordnance; when the Royal Navy acquired what became HMS Swiftsure and Triumph in 1904 they inherited these guns (the two ships were originally ordered by the Chilean government and presumably this ordnance was specified by them).

The file is too big for BOCN but if you PM me with an email address I will send a copy.
 
Grayford Variant

Another Crayford type? Other than the nose it is the same as the standard HE shell.

BD:tinysmile_grin_t:
 

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Hi, the one in the middle is an incendiary type with the copper base to it - the strange thing about this one is the profile of the projectile. The projectile is securely crimped into its case. The other one I know of like this comes out of the case but is the same profile.

The one on the right is what looks like a standard HE projectile - the odd thing about this one is the case that is rimless. The projectile comes out of the case so it may not be the one that was in there in the first place however I can trace the ownership of this round back about 35 plus years and it was originally in a well know collection and I suspect its correct.

Hope this helps.

Dave.
 
Hi BD, I like your variation - surely its not where a cap fitted?
Attached are the markings on the case that has the copper based projectile in it.
Dave.
 

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Hi Dave, I have a short incendiary type crayford, the olgive is a tighter curve than the standard, but not as pronounced as your copper based version. there are no stampings on projectile, it is crimped into a standard rimed case, but the headstamp is VSM AUTO Mk A . It seems there are several types out there.
hope this is of interest.
Tim.
 
Hi Tim,
Would you be able to post a picture of the round and headstamp, sounds rather interesting,
Best regards Weasel.
 
Hi Dave. I have 2 of the short, copper based Cayfords, VSM headstamps, nothing other really apparent. Anyone interested in possible trade for the spare? Exotic 37mm or other pre 1920 items?? Highlandotter
 
Hi Dave, I have a short incendiary type crayford, the olgive is a tighter curve than the standard, but not as pronounced as your copper based version. there are no stampings on projectile, it is crimped into a standard rimed case, but the headstamp is VSM AUTO Mk A . It seems there are several types out there.
hope this is of interest.
Tim.
Thanks Tim.
Could you take a photo of it please?
Ta.
Dave.
 
Hi Dave. I have 2 of the short, copper based Cayfords, VSM headstamps, nothing other really apparent. Anyone interested in possible trade for the spare? Exotic 37mm or other pre 1920 items?? Highlandotter

Thanks Highlandotter. You've done well getting 2 of them! I'm sure someone would be up for a trade.
Dave.
 
Hi Dave, I have a short incendiary type crayford, the olgive is a tighter curve than the standard, but not as pronounced as your copper based version. there are no stampings on projectile, it is crimped into a standard rimed case, but the headstamp is VSM AUTO Mk A . It seems there are several types out there.
hope this is of interest.
Tim.

The round with headstamp VSM AUTO Mk A is on the far right. The far left is the repainted HE ,with part original and part remade 131 fuze that I got in swap with Dave. Now in a tighter fitting case with new paint job. What do you think? In the middle, a more common incendiary and base fused common
round.
Cheers Tim.
 

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Hi Tim,hope alls well in sunny Devon,ive had a few 2pdr auto cases and they were discussed on here before,the markings sound like your case,its not hard to turn a 2pdr case into a crayford one,its also not hard to produce a projectile in a lathe,Dave L has told me some were reproduced in the 70s i think,but might be in the 80s. Does the projectile come apart and have you pics of the case H-stamp? Regards Tig.
 
Hi Tim,hope alls well in sunny Devon,ive had a few 2pdr auto cases and they were discussed on here before,the markings sound like your case,its not hard to turn a 2pdr case into a crayford one,its also not hard to produce a projectile in a lathe,Dave L has told me some were reproduced in the 70s i think,but might be in the 80s. Does the projectile come apart and have you pics of the case H-stamp? Regards Tig.

Hi Tig, my camera is not good enough to show headstamp, but is as described. I have only aquired this round recently and have not yet tried to unscrew as is tight. From viewing through the primer hole you can see the two base vents and would also seem to be a solid copper base like Daves. also the crimp looks original. A flexy probe will enter vents to top of cavity, so projectile is empty. Also the source was A1. I'm sure this is pucker. Cheers Tim.
 
hi Tim does sound good with the copper base(believe this makes it an early one),perhaps they had spare auto cases and just used them?? will keep an eye out for a swap for the case you have,cheers Tig.If not before will see you at Beltring
 
The round with headstamp VSM AUTO Mk A is on the far right. The far left is the repainted HE ,with part original and part remade 131 fuze that I got in swap with Dave. Now in a tighter fitting case with new paint job. What do you think? In the middle, a more common incendiary and base fused common
round.
Cheers Tim.

You did a good job on the nose fuzed one Tim, good effort! A massive improvement on when I had it.
Dave.
 
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