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Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe 37mm datestamps

christhurston

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hello All,The German 37mm pom-pom shells of 1914/18 were production year datestamped in full,I believe,ie 1916 etc.

Of the two Karlsruhe examples that I have,one has VI and 98 either side of the primer and 20 at the bottom,the other has X and 98 with 36 at the bottom.

Is this production month in Roman numerals and year (1898)???and the number at the bottom,as you look at the stamp,some kind of lot number,or am I barking up the wrong tree altogether here???
 
Hello again,there doesn't seem to be much info forthcoming on my original
query and the postman has just brought me No 3 of what I hope will eventually be a large collection of these interesting little rounds.

This latest round is of wartime production,with two,what I can best describe as grooved copper driving bands.These are much narrower than
those on the two previously mentioned,wartime economy,I guess.

The Roman numeral and 98 do not, of course,appear in the headstamp on
this one,the space either side of the primer is empty,apart from the little
"flowery" logos,that are present on the other two as well.

The date 1918 is at the bottom of the headstamp plus 119A,so these rounds are quite easily dated,not so,perhaps,with the prewar ones.

Chris.
 
Many thanks,Doctor,it did seem the most logical conclusion,it's nice to have it confirmed.

Regards Chris.
 
Hi, can you post images of the headstamps ?

I collect these also, but doubt I can tell you much more than the Dr. if anything at all !
 
Were any of these rounds made by Germany in WW2? The WW2 era German military seem to have been very good at using anything they could capture / find. Were there any of the guns around then, or were they all lost with ships destroyed under Versailles? What about inter-war use of the guns on the few small battleships Germany was allowed? Was any ammunition made then?
 
I'm afraid not,Gspragge,that's a technological leap too far for me at present.

I must say,though,your collection of such things is definitely something to aspire to!!!

I don't know about WW2 usage Falcon,I expect if there were any around, anywhere,they would have been used at some stage.
 
Thats what I thought, the Germans used almost any captured weapons they could. Apparently after d-day they liked the 25 Pounder so much that whole units were equipped with them, and there were duels between German and allied units armed with 25 Pounders. They also made their own ammunition for the Dutch 6,5mm Mannlicher rifles. Polish 7.92 ammo was also found at Dunkirk, so I think that if they did have any of the guns left over then they would have been in service.
 
Technological leap ? Me !!!!

"119 is for Marine case, 119 A for ARMY (Used in FLAK)"


I didn't know this !!!!! :tinysmile_cry_t2:

you take small leaps , but many in this hobby ! Every time I have thought I had it figured out, something new has leaped out and bitten me in the ----!:tinysmile_tongue_t:

I haven't heard of these being used in WW2 as such, but never say not for sure. There is a thread in projectiles I believe on the German WW2 37mm subcal 37x94 types.
 
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I somehow feel that I'm going to really enjoy delving into the history of these interesting little rounds and the different weapons they were used in

There are several books that cover these that I'll need to acquire,and I don't doubt there is much valuable info in previous posts in these forums,
and more yet to come,as in this thread.

I have various snippets floating around at the the back of my mind,the British army weren't interested in these weapons,until they wound up on the receiving end from the Boers,who were!!!

Widely used,I believe,by many navies as anti torpedo boat weapons,and I
think,many different guises in WW1,land use AA,and even a lightweight
frontline weapon for German stormtroopers.

All in all,this promises to be a fascinating little project.
 
I have 3 different German WW2 case type catalogues, from Polte dated 1943, DWM dated 1942 and an unknown ( could be official army catalogue? ) dated 1942.
They all describe a 37x94 R case ( number 6333 ). So, at least the factories had these in programme, but I have never seen any WW2 dated cases and don't know if they ever were made during WW2.
 
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Go to this posting in Projectiles

icon1.gif
Particularity by 37mm Hotchkiss

about page 6

Andre' Durieux

for ww2 German 37x94. contact him for more details.
 
I have 3 different German WW2 case type catalogues, from Polte dated 1943, DWM dated 1942 and an unknown ( could be official army catalogue? ) dated 1942.
They all describe a 37x94 R case ( number 6333 ). So, at least the factories had these in programme, but I have never seen any WW2 dated cases and don't know if they ever were made during WW2.
It would be an interesting case to find if it turned up.

Gspragge: You mentioned WW2 German 37mm Sub Calibre rounds. Do you have any examples?
 
37mm headstamps?

To complete
119 is for Marine case, 119 A for ARMY (Used in FLAK)

Hello Doctor,
One of my 37mm's has headstamp marked;
M (with crown above)
C/97.98.
III 1904 (with crab/flower/bomb, ? below)
KARLSRUHE
117

I believe the crowned M is the acceptance mark for the Navy, and the factory was Karlsruhe Patronenfabrik which was a major manufacturer from late 19th centuary to WW1? Can anyone tell me anything about the other marks, particularly what the little crabby thing is called? The primer has no marks.
The projectile has a percussion fuse marked K, (karlsruhe again?), and two driving bands the lower of which is grooved so looks like three bands. The base of projectile marked VSM
S Which I'm guessing may be Vickers son and Maxim?

The other which outwardly looks similar is headstamped;
K 15
JUNI 1918
Sp255 119A

Primer is marked; Kp 4 18
Projectile is similar except H on fuse and a single V on the base.
So the 119A must mean Army?

Any other information will be gratefully received, I'm waiting for the postman at this moment who should, hopefully, be bringing another projectile!
Best regards,
navyman.
 
WW2 German 37x94r

I don't have these, uncommon. Andre does and may have a post showing them. They were for Navy use in practice subcaliber firing.
 
Hello,
I have a 37mm round stamped Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe 1917 119A. Nice condition.
I may donate it to a WWI museum. For tax purposes I would like to know what value it may have, if any.

I appreciate any estimates or opinions,

Thanks
jmichael
 
Post an image

Donation; Many of us run private Museums here :xd:

Also look on Specialist Auctions for price comparison. The basic kinds are not very expensive.

about 5 pounds ea I think very common.
 
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Roman numbers ( I, II, III, IV, V etc) were used in Germany for naval cases, full date markings for army cases. Who has the oldest naval marking?
 
Roman numbers ( I, II, III, IV, V etc) were used in Germany for naval cases, full date markings for army cases. Who has the oldest naval marking?


helloff.png


Perhaps i can give some additional informations about these German WW1 "3,7 cm x 9,4 cm" ammo.







Factories :
  1. LORENZ (little primer) / From [1883 to 1888]
  2. AWS (little primer) / From [1887 to 1900] , and the year 1915.
  3. PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe (little primer) / From [1914 to 1915] / no Lot Number
  4. PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe (little primer) / year 1915 , month february with Lot Number
  5. K (means PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe) (little primer) / year 1915 , month march , April, Mai / with Lot Number
  6. PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe (big krupp primer) / From [1897 to 1906] / with lot Number ; month in roman Letter / typical Imperial Navy (M with crown)
  7. PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe (big krupp primer) / Years [1901 ; 1905 ; 1914 ; 1915 ; 1916 ; 1917 ; 1918 / No month , no Lot Number / stamped 119 A
  8. K (means PatronenFabrik Karlsruhe) (big krupp primer) / Year 1918 from [mai to september] / with lot Number / stamped 119 A
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