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A.P. projectiles illegal?

Quatermass

Well-Known Member
What is the legal position in respect to small arms A.P. projectiles?

Many people tell me AP projectiles are illegal to own in the U.K.

I was told by a friend who works with ammunition that only complete rounds of armour piecing ammunition are illegal, component parts are not.

Does any member know the correct legal position, also would an unburnt tracer or unstuck primer be similarly illegal?

I think it would be useful for members to know the full position.

Quatermass
 
Hi Q,
i think everyone is in general confusion with the new upcoming legislations.

I would just sit pretty and hang on!

cheers

waff
 
Hi Q
Changes in the firearms laws of January 1993,

Armour piercing & incendiary ammunition for
military use & any missile ( projectile) for such ammunition.

Any explosive rocket or ammunition for military use & any launcher
or other projecting apparatus for such rockets or ammunition.

Any missile ( projectile ) for explosive rockets & ammunition for military use.

Expanding ammunition for pistols & ant missile ( projectile ) for such ammunition.

Incendiary & explosive bullets are not prohibited if they have had all incendiary & explosive material removed.

These are quotes from the home office leaflet release at the time
Harry
 
Hi Waff, this is current legislation. live AP loadings are, as far as i know, illegal.

What collectors need to know is if componet parts (projectiles) are illegal.

Also i think it would be useful to know if an unstruck primer is legal or not.

Thank you HarryG. Now does that mean that all you small arms collectors with AP rounds are breaking the law?


Quatermass
 
Hi Q
On my firearm certificate primers must be deactivated doesn't say how, any AP projectile is illegal.
If you don't have your small arms on a firearms certificate yes & possible larger calibres as well, I can't see any cut of for larger calibres in the leaflet.
I know I have to have everything on my firearms certificate
Harry
 
Thank you HarryG.

Well thats a bit of a shock. That means collectors of big game rounds, anti tank rifle rounds and military rounds in general could be breaking the law.

Don't trust an 'oiled' primer to be inert, it may well not be.

Quatermass
 
I think this is one of those areas that a blind eye is turned at ,from what i always knew when in the police was if its an armour piercing round that can still be used in a legally held live weapon then they were banned ie pistol or rifle bullets a blind eye was turned at larger calibers.
Same went for WW2 and older rifle grenade launchers which had to be deactivated and welded permanently onto a deact weapon but in practice you would have to find a working rifle ,live grenade, and the special round to set the whole thing off.
 
i have a few SAA rounds that have `oiled` primers,so what are your suggestions then please chaps?

waff
 
Thanks Daz,

i was thinking a little in the future though.would it be best to have them `struck` by someone who knows what they are doing with them?
I always think of a post in the forum from Quatermass when he said "one small wrong item could get the whole collection confiscated":eek:hmy:

that worries me.

waff
 
Last edited:
Hi Waff, you can only be sure a primer is inert if its been struck.

As far as I know oiling primers is not a guaranteed way to render it inert.

How can you know if a primers 'oiled' or if oiling even works?

Quatermass
 
Now then,

i have on very good nfo that...

You can only have live SAA if you have a section 5 (variation to collect) on an FAC.
even then you cannot have any larger live ammo with a driveband.
I hope i got that right as my head was a bit baffled with all the info off Mick!!:S

Good point Q with the question on unstruck primers.
the answer is that you dont know if the primer is oiled or not and you have to take the word of the seller.
The only safe primer is a struck primer.
Striking an oiled one doesn`t gauruntee its safe.The cart has to be de-greased before a strike to make them safe.

hope this helps?

best

waff
 
Lets change the topic i'm getting depressed and worried i think every single one of us has got something that would be classed as illegal to own , if the powers that be want to take me to court for owning an antique inert tank shell that i do not have the vehicle to fire it from and i am not using it in a manner that causes injury or distress i say bring it on .
 
Well its a damn good topic if you ask me squire?
I think we should run with it.
any more input please gentlemen?

best

waff
 
I dont mind i just worry alot its the same as WW2 deacts which I collect and sell just ignore me as i do my ostrich head in the sand impression.
 
I can categorically assure you that armour piercing projectiles are prohibited items (Section 5) and that whether the round is inert or not, if it is an AP projectile it needs to be not just on a firearms certificate, but one varied for the correct Section 5 Paragraph. The same applies to incendiary, explosive and soft nosed pistol bullets.

My own FAC is varied for each of the different Section 5 paragraphs such as Sect.5 (1A)e .for AP, (1A)e for incendiary and (1A)g for the separate projectiles.

I am in the process of writing a short guide to the legalities of ammunition collecting to be posted on this site.

Regards
TonyE
 
waffenamt wrote:
Now then,

i have on very good nfo that...

You can only have live SAA if you have a section 5 (variation to collect) on an FAC.
even then you cannot have any larger live ammo with a driveband.


waff

I meant to reply to this also.

You do not need a Section 5 FAC to collect live ammo, just a normal FAC varied for that calibre or calibres. Section 5 is not a variation to collect, Section 5 refers to prohibited weapons and ammunition, everything from machine guns to guided missiles. The relevant paragraphs of Section 5 of the Act are detailed in my previous post.

Technically I do not believe there is a calibre limit that Section 5 applies to, but it was originally brought in for small arms rounds.

If you have an FAC varied correctly the oiled primer question does not arise, but I agree it is a worry for collectors of inert ammo.

Regards
TonyE
 
Hi I am becoming increasingly worried myself,i know of a few people myself, and have seen more on this site who have downsized or disposed of collections,mainly due to fears of legislation.I dont watch tv or read papers so could someone enlighten me about whats in the pipeline.Those of you who have the wont happen to me attitude, should take a look at one of my other main interests,motorcycling.Eu laws on licencing are going to make it nearly impossible for people to gain access to a licence to ride a big bike,without major hassle,something m/cycle groups fought to prevent over a decade ago,without luck.Im sure there are many more examples.Tony:unsure:
 
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