37-mm 1 1/4 pounder Mk 3

**Doug** · 10th June 2009, 05:47 PM

Hi

The Canadian war Museum has a VSM 37-mm 1 1/4 pounder Mk III Gun. the provenance is clear to the CGS/HMCS Canada. Conventional references list the Canada with 1-pounder guns, nor can I find a formal reference to the 1 1/4 pounder.

Can anyone help with the ammunition used by the gun? So far, I am assuming a variation of the standard British 37-mm 1-pounder gun.

Photos attached.

Thanks

Doug

**Bonnex** · 10th June 2009, 07:32 PM

Drawing of the cartridge with common shell plus a couple of Vickers drawings of the ordnance.

**Gspragge** · 10th June 2009, 07:54 PM

One of these at Fort Henry with a 1pdr. Now the big question is the length of the slot going into the feed. If you can measure it we will be sure what it is. The 1pdr. will be shortest, 1 1/4pr next, 1 1/2pr next and final mod to 2pr. last. If we had 1 1/4 pdrs, well better than 1 pdrs. but likely were sold used RN guns (again). Then where are all the bloody casings ! I may have had one, It was not marked 1 1/4 Pr.

**Falcon** · 10th June 2009, 08:37 PM

I have never heard of this calibre before. yet another round to look for.

Is the shell the same as the 1 Pounder?

**Doug** · 10th June 2009, 08:52 PM

WOW - Thanks.

I will measure the feed next week.

Doug

**HAZORD** · 10th June 2009, 11:28 PM

Hey Bonnex,

Thanks for posting the images! Good stuff.

John

**Gspragge** · 11th June 2009, 12:19 AM

I had this a couple of years ago, before I knew what the 1 1/4 Pr was. I traded it, thinking it was a 1 1/2 pr. case. The 1 1/4 Pr. and 1 1/2Pr. cases are identical, only the projectiles are different. The 1 1/4 Pr. used the 1 Pr. projectile, the 1 1/2 Pr. uses a longer projectile - a stretched 1 Pr. projectile if you will (hopefully some one will show some). This case is early, it has the "Nordenfelt" groove around the primer pocket (you see this on 3 Pdr. cases), a carry over from the Maxim Nordenfelt designs pre Vikers Maxim. If somebody has a later small primer case with out the groove it is likely a pre WW1 1 1/2 Pr. case. The small primer cases are essentually commercial products. The drawing shows the 1 1/4 Pr. mark, but I suspect in practice this wasn't done. I have not yet heard of any. The WW1 cases are well marked and us the screw in primer assembly. By then the 1 1/4 Pr. was obsolete (1905 in British service) - Only in Canada ! The measurement of the feed block should indicate if these guns were upgraded to 1 1/2 Pr. The feed slot has to be a correct fit, if too loose the feed block will not slide over the rim if the round can move forward. The rim size matches the Hotchkiss 37x120r and would have competed with this round commercialy. The feed slot on a 1Pr will be 6 9/16s" wide 166mm, the 1 1/4Pr will be 7 3/4" 197mm (with a bit of play) The 1 1/2Pr will be another 1/2 inch or so. The 40mm 2 Pr. is a straight 1 1/2 Pr. case and has the same base size.

**2pounder** · 11th June 2009, 12:33 PM

Interesting to note the ammo drawing makes reference to HMS Swiftsure and Triumph, both these ships had strange guns in that their 6prs were not the usual ones fitted to British ships.
2pr

**Gspragge** · 11th June 2009, 12:45 PM

if the two 1 1/4 Pr. guns over here came from one of those ships. Perhaps after the RN took them out of service we ended up with them ? If serial number records could be checked ?

**TimG** · 11th June 2009, 03:11 PM

Both ships were originally built for the Chilean Navy. However, due to fears that they would be immediately sold on to the Russians they were bought by the British Government and served with the Royal Navy. HMS Swiftsure from the Chilean specification was fitted with a Marble bath. HMS Triumph had the dubious distinction of being the first warship to be sunk with a modern torpedo (1915).

An enquiry of 'Explosion' Museum, Gosport may shed light on what became of the four Maxims that were fitted to Swiftsure before she used as a target, then broken up in 1920.

Regards

TimG.