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MG-42 Blanks

Freaky

Well-Known Member
Gents

I recently got this MG-42 belt whit wood prop in the mail. I had tried to search the web for information for this type of amo, but havent succeeded. I have been told that it was used for training or blanks. I havent seen this type of amo onto the marked before and do not know much about it. Can any pleas enlighten me onto this subject?

Cheers
Freaky
 

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Real nice!!

Yes,they are training blanks as far as im aware?
Havent got the books to hand as its late and i should be in bedski now,work tomorrow.

I once did hear a tale that the germans stopped using these due to accidents/injuries sustained by the projectiles?

W
 
The German WW2 era 7.9 x 57 Blank was known as the Platzpatrone 33. The wood projectiles were normally given a coat of red (I have also seen purple) paint.
I cannot detect any traces of paint/colouring on yours. I have had examples with the natural coloured wood projectiles previously and was told that they were Dutch reloads (?).

Generally speaking the original German Platzpatrone 33's additionally had a knurled ring around the case (known as a Sortie ring) this indicated that the case was a reload (this was normal for Blanks), although this was generally limited to brass or copper wash steel cases.

Hope this helps....

Peter.

PS; If you would like to see some pics of the above, please let me know.
 
Pp.33

I agree with Peter that these are probably not German, although they have the Sortie ring for reloads. I cannot recall seeing plain wood German Platzpatrone 33 before.

If theye are foreign to Germany, one other possibility is Danish, who reloaded lots of British Besa and German cases as blanks and drill rounds.

Regards
TonyE
 
I think you could be right with Danish Tony. Until you mentioned it, I hadn't seen the Sortie ring. They are certainly of the German design, you will note the shoulder on the projectile at the case mouth (this helped keep integrity of the cartridge during any rough or forced feeding).
 
Thank you every one for useful information. I would use a long time to figure out this by my self. Thanks a gain every one.

Cheers
Freaky
 
I agree with Peter that these are probably not German, although they have the Sortie ring for reloads. I cannot recall seeing plain wood German Platzpatrone 33 before.

If theye are foreign to Germany, one other possibility is Danish, who reloaded lots of British Besa and German cases as blanks and drill rounds.

Regards
TonyE

Nice photos...I would say they where at some stage certainly German, reloaded as PLATZ 33, but I was under the impression that the Danish reloads had a circle stamped on the headstamp. There are currently a load of British BESA 7.92mm showing this 'circle' stamp on SA at the moment. IAA have a thread on their website also

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7044

Also I had a quick look at headstamp P IXm1 145 39 on Willem van Eijk & Karl Menzel website and it is listed as Platz 33
 
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I think your rounds are original Platzpatrone 33 Sorte 1.
Probably they came out of the water. Depending witch manufacturer made the bullet, the color disappears.

The picture shows a case found a few years ago.


Rgds,
Dutch
 

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Some Platz 33 Rounds

I've attached a couple of images from my collection, there are 2 rings on each of the cases, sorry about the quality i've had to scan rather than photograph.
 

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Wooden projectiles.

Hello Freaky,
I doubt if this is of much help, but just for information these are some wooden tipped blanks which are for training purposes with the Bren Gun. The wooden projectiles are designed, as far as I know, to dis-integrate in the rifling but still allow enough time for the gas operated action to function allowing full auto for training. Personally I would prefer not to be in front of them, I've heard stories of accidents when using them, but have no positive information about this. If anyone has, I'd be very interested to hear about it?
Cheers,
navyman.
 

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platz

I've heard stories of the German 7.92mm platz being lethal up to 20m. If the Bren ones are the same......
 
L10z

The wood bulleted L10z blank for Bren guns was supposed to be only used with a special "break up" barrel which ensured the shredding of the wood bullet. If it was used in a normal barrel there was no guarantee that the wood bullet would break up.

The previous machine gun blank, the LVIIz was worse. That had a hollow wood bullet filled with coper oxide dust to give it sufficient mass to provide adequate recoil for a Vickers gun. It was unsuccessful partly because of the safety aspect but also because a misfeed broke the bullet and left the gun clogged with copper oxide dust.

Regards
TonyE
 
Thanks Tony,
I had thought that the 'shredder barrel' was just a rumour. I was told in the sixties that these had 'crossed rifling' to ensure the break up of the projectile, is this how they worked?
However, I would still not like to be at the naughty end if these were being fired!
Best regards,
Guy.
 
Bren barrel

I believe these had some form of knife blade at the muzzle, but I have not personally handled one. Oddly, I cannot find any mention of it in Tom Dugelby's "Bren Gun Saga".

I will investigate further!

Regards
TonyE
 
H TonyE and navyman,
I can confirm that yes there was a shredder barrel for the bren and that the 'bulleted' blank was fairly lethal when used in the normal barrel.
Many moons ago when I was in the ACF they used to let us loose on exercise with Bren guns and bulleted blanks,on a summer camp at Penhale myself and my mate were given a bren to play with.
The shredder on the example we had looked like an old fashioned bean slicer permantly fitted inside the flash eliminator,being only a pair of 13 year olds and up to try anything once,it soon dawned on us that my mate(the No 2) had the spare barrel which was a standard 'live firing' barrel.
One field kitchen riddled with bullet holes later,a huge bawling out and the rest of the week spent in the cook house we all arrived home safely!

Those were the days!

All the best
Tony
 
H TonyE and navyman,
I can confirm that yes there was a shredder barrel for the bren and that the 'bulleted' blank was fairly lethal when used in the normal barrel.
Many moons ago when I was in the ACF they used to let us loose on exercise with Bren guns and bulleted blanks,on a summer camp at Penhale myself and my mate were given a bren to play with.
The shredder on the example we had looked like an old fashioned bean slicer permantly fitted inside the flash eliminator,being only a pair of 13 year olds and up to try anything once,it soon dawned on us that my mate(the No 2) had the spare barrel which was a standard 'live firing' barrel.
One field kitchen riddled with bullet holes later,a huge bawling out and the rest of the week spent in the cook house we all arrived home safely!

Those were the days!

All the best
Tony

The only thing I remember about the Bren was always trying to carry with my hand under the barrel like a rifle, and boy did I get some burnt fingers, I could never get used to using the handle up top (i'm a slow learner...!)
 
Or you pulled the handle to the top to carry it and the b****y thing fell off because some prankster had released the lock catch,very funny.....:tinysmile_cry_t4:
 
Bren Blank barrel

I have done a bit of checking and got hold of the drawing for the Bren blank firing barrel.

It seems that this was introduced in the 1950s, which would make sense, since the L10z blank was also introduced at that time, being formally approved in October 1955.

Prior to that the L.VII (with the wood bullet filled with copper oxide dust) had been introduced in 1939, only for use with machine guns with special barrels or muzzle attachments. I still need to find out if there was a Bren special barrel from that period.

The L.VII was obviously not very successful as it only was manufactured in 1939. Post war a new Mark 8z blank was developed but not introduced for service, possibly because the Indian Army had introduced their own Mark 8 blank which was trialled by the British army in Germany. When the wood bulleted blank was developed further and introduced the Mark number was advanced to L.10z to avoid confusion with the Indian round.

Picture shows British made experimantal Mark 8z and early Mark 10z blanks.

Regards
TonyE
 

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Thanks all for the interesting information.
I was also in the CCF at school, we were on a range being instructed with the Bren, and ordered to fire single rounds at fig 11 targets. Three of us had the same idea, in a corner of the butts was a 50 gallon oil drum. The temptation was too great and the drum was riddled as we had set the weapons to full auto and emptied the mags into it. We were thrown off the range and recieved a weeks extra work and of course, six of the best. I still think it was worth the punishment.
Cheers,
navyman.
 
platz33

I really enjoyed this post, so I though I would try and keep it going. I have attached some scans of four rounds. The first is a British 7.92mm, but you can see the circle stamped between the K43 and Z, which I think denotes a Danish reload? Maybe some one can confirm?

Second from the left is a German Polte round, which also has a circle over the S*, again I believe this indicates a Danish reload. This round also has a
similar pointed projectile as the first. Compare this projectile to the two German ones adjacent. Both the shape of the projectile, with the blunt nose and the step at the case mouth and the purple-red/pink colour i'm told would be typical German Platz projectiles.

In my previous post I have shown a German round with a pointed blue wooden projectile, which I now presume to be a foreign projectile inserted into the case, maybe someone can confirm this also?

regards
Michael



The German WW2 era 7.9 x 57 Blank was known as the Platzpatrone 33. The wood projectiles were normally given a coat of red (I have also seen purple) paint.
I cannot detect any traces of paint/colouring on yours. I have had examples with the natural coloured wood projectiles previously and was told that they were Dutch reloads (?).

Generally speaking the original German Platzpatrone 33's additionally had a knurled ring around the case (known as a Sortie ring) this indicated that the case was a reload (this was normal for Blanks), although this was generally limited to brass or copper wash steel cases.

Hope this helps....

Peter.

PS; If you would like to see some pics of the above, please let me know.
 

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