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Current British L numbers

Thanks for that Tony. What led to the change to L22, do you know?

I wish they could have settled down to a more logical system, e.g. the first model of a particular NATO ammo loading being L1A1, with all subsequent changes which still comply with the same STANAG being L1A2,3,4, etc, and the L2,3,4 only being introduced for different loadings. Too sensible, I suppose...
 
Hi Tony,
I have no idea for the change,this one also now has a green annulus,the 'old' L21A1 having a black annulus.
I have often wondered about the sudden 'jump' in the L number series,for example the 5.56mm blank which as you say started with L1A1,2,3 and 4 and then suddenly 'jumped' to L18A1.
The same with 7.62mm ball,the highest L2 number I have come across being the A5 then being superseded by the L42 series.
Would be interesting to find out the reason for this change,I can understand the reason for the high L numbers given to 'foreign' contract ammo but all the examples of L numbers given above are from RG manufactured ammunition.

Tony
 
Have a look at the L number table I have posted before. You will see that for both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm all the intervening L numbers have been allocated to various producers, even though they may not have actually made any ammo specifically for UK forces. It seems we allocated L numbers to all the various producers of NATO ammo just in case it ever came into British service.

Apart from L19 and L20, which presumably exist, all the "Round 5.56mm ...." L number slots are filled from L1 to L22. Originally they seemed to start a separate series for "Cartridge 5.56mm ..." commencing with the blank at L1A1 but now they seem to include both "Round.." and "Cartridge..." in the same series, as in the L18 blank.

Regards
TonyE
 
There are listings also for 5.56mm rounds with L series numbers higher than L22.
AP L23A1
CQT L25A1
RRLP L24A1
Marker Red L29A!
marker Blue L28A1
Tracer L26A1

I cant find a L27A1 but maybe I have overlooked it in the database.
 
TonyE said:
Have a look at the L number table I have posted before. You will see that for both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm all the intervening L numbers have been allocated to various producers, even though they may not have actually made any ammo specifically for UK forces. It seems we allocated L numbers to all the various producers of NATO ammo just in case it ever came into British service.

Apart from L19 and L20, which presumably exist, all the "Round 5.56mm ...." L number slots are filled from L1 to L22. Originally they seemed to start a separate series for "Cartridge 5.56mm ..." commencing with the blank at L1A1 but now they seem to include both "Round.." and "Cartridge..." in the same series, as in the L18 blank.

Regards
TonyE
Click to expand...

Many Thanks TonyE,
so in that case I wouldn't mind betting the L20 was the RUAG 5.56mm blank we had very briefly,would be logical as ball was L21,mind you being logical it probably wasn't at all,all bets are off now! clear as mud this L system,why did we change from the much simpler letter and Mk number system?,no need to answer I know the answer and who to blame for it!

Tony
 
Thanks EXAT. Are the L28 and 29 markers the Simulation rounds? I suspect the L27 is the yellow marker.

What are the L24 and L25. I assume the latter is a reduced range round. Again, is this the IVI made round?

Thanks
TonyE
 
further to my earlier post -
the L25A1 is described as a Close Quarter Training round - no NSN listed or any details of manufacturers
the L24A1 - a Reduced Range Low Penetration round - again no NSN or other details
found the L27A1 - described as cart 5.56mm Blank, Short L27A1 - some notes refer to a canadian classification - not much more to add I'm afraid.

yes TonyE the marker rounds are the Simulation rounds
 
Thanks exat for that. Of course, when I said "Simulation" rounds I really meant the "Simunition" ammo made by General Dynamics. See
http://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges

I will update my L number list with these.

As the L27 blank may be Canadian, I wonder if the L24 short range round is one of the Canadian IVI types. There is a brown round nosed type and a semi-pointed frangible. I will post photos later of these. The nomenclature of the L27 is interesting to. Why "short" in the title? Perhaps to differentiate it from the long necked type? Alternatively I suppose it could br the Simunition blank that matches the FX marker type. Details here; http://simunition.com/upload/documents/doc_8.pdf

Regards
TonyE
 
Don't know if the L numbers interesting you lot are UK use only, but the RG L15A1 ball 5,56 mm M/85 round was exported for HMAK (danish) use in 2001 (Violet Primer annulus) and 2003 + 2005 (red pa). There might be more years, but these are those known by me.
Soren
 
The L15A1 I have has a 2000 date. This ammo wasn't just made for export, it was also made for the UK special forces for use in their M16/M4 weapons. It has a different propellant than the SA80 fodder. Despite NATO standardisation, different guns work best with different ammo.
 
The 7.62x51 L40A1 round was never issued, due to either failing the pressure testing or NATO acceptance tests, I believe. I think that BAe RG has significant stocks, but they stopped replying to my emails when they heard I only wanted 10k rounds...

T
 
My understanding was that the L40A1 has been NATO qualified but has not sold because no-one currently has a requirement for the extra penetration it offers. Presumably the standard ball is cheaper.
 
TonyE said:
[...]Apart from L19 and L20, which presumably exist, all the "Round 5.56mm ...." L number slots are filled from L1 to L22. Originally they seemed to start a separate series for "Cartridge 5.56mm ..." commencing with the blank at L1A1 but now they seem to include both "Round.." and "Cartridge..." in the same series, as in the L18 blank.

Regards
TonyE
Click to expand...

See attached 'approval' for some explanation of keeping up with nomenclature changes (albeit not specifically of relevance to 5.56)


View attachment SAA Nomen.pdf
 
Thanks Norman. Interesting the subtle difference between "Round, 9mm, Ball, Mk.2Z" and "Drill Round, 9mm, Mk.2". It seems that the old code, "D" for Drill, "L" for Blank etc., is no longer in use, even for stores that pre-date the "L" system.

The new system seems to go against the long standing hierachy of nomenclature.

Regards
TonyE
 
1965 was a bit of watershed for the 'L Series' model numbering system. I don't know how it affected SAA but grenades, irrespective of their flavour, were allocated a unique L number from then on and the experimental notation was simplified.

When the QAD people were at Ha Ha Road in Woolwich they kept manuscript registers of allocations of 'L numbers' - it would be nice to find them!
 
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