M83 information required on development and dates of use

[butterfly]

U.S. butterfly wings
Just because I'm ignorant on the subject, I have recently seen a set of butterfly wings in good shape at a gunshow, no bomb or fuze just the wing and they were marked wit a T# that I dont rember. Any way to the point the fella wanted $60.00 for them was that a good price?

A snip at $60.00 I'd say, probably much rarer this side of the pond though. I'd snap his hand off at that price!!
regards
Kev

 

[butterfly]

Sorry about the mistype. The fuze I have is a T49E1, early version of the M131 fuze as Steve mentioned earlier and is listed on the documents I attached.

No worries HAZORD. Thats a very nice fuze you have - direct copy of the German 70B I beleive!! anti-disturbance.
regards
Kev

 

[SG500]

A snip at $60.00 I'd say, probably much rarer this side of the pond though. I'd snap his hand off at that price!!
regards
Kev

I'd agree with Kev on that, $60 really is very good indeed.
Kev you've started a great thread here - you keep asking all the questions I was going to ask, keep going with the questions!
Oh and thanks for all the answers guys, good stuff.
Dave.

 

[butterfly]

Butterfly your timing is a little off, I'm just finishing packing to return to the NL. Someplace I have some photos of very early M83s and fuzes from Picatinny with dates and lot numbers, you will have to remind me later this weekend.

US-Subs - you asked to be reminded of this post, any joy with the early M83 pics?
regards
Kev

 

[US-Subs]

Ummmmmm, now that I'm reminded - give me a bit.

 

[US-Subs]

I may have spoken too soon - having the photos is one thing, finding them is another. So far here is one of the bomblet, thought it was dated, but afraid not. It is interesting though, that both designations are used on the submunition.

 

[US-Subs]

OK Butterfly, I've found one set of the fuze photos, but damned if I can find any others. Saw them just before I went home.... I'll let you know if I trip across them. JO

 

[butterfly]

I may have spoken too soon - having the photos is one thing, finding them is another. So far here is one of the bomblet, thought it was dated, but afraid not. It is interesting though, that both designations are used on the submunition.

(No panic with things, don't fret if you can't find them, I was only reminding you because you asked me to. be good to see whenever.)

Very nice photos of an early M83, could you tell me what the colour scheme signifies? Is that typical of early M83's or is it for training purposes?

thanks for posting
regards
Kev

 

[US-Subs]

Not sure, it was in the storage area at the former Picatinny Arsenal Museum, they had no information on it.

 

[gijunkman]

T 11 wings

Picked these up. They are Marked T11 and it looks like REX

 

[butterfly]

T 11 wings
Picked these up. They are Marked T11 and it looks like REX

Very nice indeed gijunkman. A very nice set of early M83 wings (presumably early designation T-11)
great pick up.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

regards
Kev

 

[SG500]

Very nice indeed, thanks for showing them.
Dave.

 

[HAZORD]

Here are two examples of different paint jobs, with closeups of their fuzes.

I hadn't looked at them too closely before, but the M129 U fuze has a selector on top to select air or ground.

 

[butterfly]

Here are two examples of different paint jobs, with closeups of their fuzes.

I hadn't looked at them too closely before, but the M129 U fuze has a selector on top to select air or ground.

Two great sets there Hazord.
The M129 is the copy of the German 41 fuze for airburst or impact
The T48 is an early copy of the German 67 (30 min delay) fuze.

First time I have seen an American M83 painted in bright yellow. Do you think it has been repainted at any point in its life or do you consider it to be original to the piece. very intresting.

Also note the variation of the spelling fuze and fuse - probably just manufacturers but intresting never the less!

Thanks for posting
regards
Kev

 

[butterfly]

I'm still on the lookout for details relating to dates of development of the M83.
US-Subs posted a picture of a fuze dated 11 / 44,(many thanks), has anyone got anything at all, documents or items pre-dating this?

Also haven't seen any documents giving anything other than M83 as the designation. I now have seen pictures of wings stamped

T-11 and T-45 anyone know if this is early designation pre- M83 ?


Also at the other end of the spectrum, when did the M83 become obsolete?

Many thanks for all your help so far.
regards to all
Kev

 

[HAZORD]

Kev,

As far as the yellow butterfly goes, it is the first one I have seen, and it was that way when I got it. The paint looks original, and doesn't show any other color underneath. It is the correct shade for ordnance yellow of that vintage.

The fuze/fuse thing is interesting. Probably some authoritative person in the office that corrected the spelling on the drawing because they thought it should be fuse, and didn't know any different.

John

 

[butterfly]

Kev,

As far as the yellow butterfly goes, it is the first one I have seen, and it was that way when I got it. The paint looks original, and doesn't show any other color underneath. It is the correct shade for ordnance yellow of that vintage.

The fuze/fuse thing is interesting. Probably some authoritative person in the office that corrected the spelling on the drawing because they thought it should be fuse, and didn't know any different.

John

Thanks John,
Really intresting with the yellow painted wings, they look original in the photos you posted, but always good to get an opinion at source. The Germans used bright yellow as a colour scheme so its also possible this was the basis used also. Intresting that it should be on a later style of wings too.

Have also noticed another difference in the way the fuzes are marked generally,
some are stamped,

bomb, fuze .... and others fuze, bomb...

again put this down to official designation and variations in manufacturers stampings. Still intresting to note though.

regards Kev

 

[SG500]

Here are two examples of different paint jobs, with closeups of their fuzes.

I hadn't looked at them too closely before, but the M129 U fuze has a selector on top to select air or ground.

Now they're really nice, we don't get too many of those flying over to the UK. Thanks for showing them.
Dave.