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M83 information required on development and dates of use

butterfly

butterfly

HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Hello all,

I'm extending my research on butterfly bombs and would like to know if anyone has information regarding the M83 (American version of the SD2)

What I am looking for is:-

The dates of its development ?

When and where was it first used?

Any information on areas it was used, dates/events etc?

When did this submunition become obsolete? (replaced by what?)

If you can help me with any of the above that would be great.
Many thanks in advance

regards
Kev

Also if anyone has any items they wish to sell connected to the M83 please pm me.
Always looking for butterfly bomb related items!! thankyou
 
Hi Kev
From USNBDS Manual 1944
It lists the M83 Fuzes as
Experimental T47 Us M129 copy of (41)
T48 US M130 copy of (67)
T49 US M131 copy of (70)B
In Bombs and Bomb components april 1966 they were still listed, i believe that the US trialled them for Anti submarine use (similar to the Hedgehog) but cannot confirm this.They would have been first produced after 1941 ? We here in The UK having received the first SD2 from Germany at Wattisham, we would then possibly told the Americans.
Steve
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Kev
From USNBDS Manual 1944
It lists the M83 Fuzes as
Experimental T47 Us M129 copy of (41)
T48 US M130 copy of (67)
T49 US M131 copy of (70)B
In Bombs and Bomb components april 1966 they were still listed, i believe that the US trialled them for Anti submarine use (similar to the Hedgehog) but cannot confirm this.They would have been first produced after 1941 ? We here in The UK having received the first SD2 from Germany at Wattisham, we would then possibly told the Americans.
Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve for above info.

I was aware that the earlier fuzes T47, T48, T49 were re-designated the M129, M130 and M131 respectively -

Does anyone know when the numbers changed from the T-series to the M-series ?

Also anyone have info on these fuzes (or the M83) in documents pre-dating 1944?

Apologies for the bombardment of questions, and many thanks if you can help fill in gaps.

kind regards
Kev.
 
Someone mentioned that the M83 'butterfly bomb' was used in Vietnam - can anyone confirm this was the case?
Steve mentioned earlier that it was still mentioned in 'bombs and bomb components' April 1966 - so I'm guessing the info could be correct.
regards
Kev
 
Not the best photo Kev but here is one found in the 90's
 

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Butterfly your timing is a little off, I'm just finishing packing to return to the NL. Someplace I have some photos of very early M83s and fuzes from Picatinny with dates and lot numbers, you will have to remind me later this weekend.

Fortunately, however, my hard drives with the latest Archive searches are just getting packed - your Vietnam questions answered.
 

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You need to visit the Archive Jack, more there than you could ever imagine.
 
Looks like i have to take some time of and visit the US next year or have a look at your hard drive :wink:
 
I have an example of each of the three. They look exacty the same from the outside. The t49E1 is the only one with any markings, and it is cad plated gold color, whereas the other two are aluminum/pot metal color.

I downloaded this manual from Lexpev's site some time ago.
 

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Butterfly your timing is a little off, I'm just finishing packing to return to the NL. Someplace I have some photos of very early M83s and fuzes from Picatinny with dates and lot numbers, you will have to remind me later this weekend.

Fortunately, however, my hard drives with the latest Archive searches are just getting packed - your Vietnam questions answered.
Click to expand...

US-SUBS -

Will do just that, this is a totally new area for me, I know a little about the M83, but as far as actual dates of development/sub-marks on fuzes/and deployment, I'm pretty much in the dark.

Many thanks for your photo-excellent!! that is just the kind of evidence I'm looking for- would then appear that the US version had a much longer service history than the SD2. Also shows that it was still very useful into the late 60's. Do you know if they were used extensively or on a limited basis in Vietnam? (sorry, I tend to find when one question gets answered it throws up several more!!!)

many many thanks
kind regards
Kev
 
Not the best photo Kev but here is one found in the 90's
Click to expand...

Thankyou Mad !!!
Another excellent photo, evidence of use in Vietnam. Also looks to be as deadly as the day it was dropped!
thanks for your help
regards
Kev
 
I have an example of each of the three. They look exacty the same from the outside. The t149E1 is the only one with any markings, and it is cad plated gold color, whereas the other two are aluminum/pot metal color.

I downloaded this manual from Lexpev's site some time ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Hazord, would love to see some pics if possible some time, however the descriptions you have given are very useful.
I take it that the T149 is the early version of the M83 ?

As regards Lexpev , very useful site for information, have looked at that site too, but for anyone who hasn't it is worth checking out!

Many thanks
regards
Kev
 
U.S. butterfly wings

Just because I'm ignorant on the subject, I have recently seen a set of butterfly wings in good shape at a gunshow, no bomb or fuze just the wing and they were marked wit a T# that I dont rember. Any way to the point the fella wanted $60.00 for them was that a good price?
 
We are getting back to the question of prices and what is good / bad, and only you can answer that. Are you likely to see another set with T markings? No. Would I have paid $60 for them? Yes, but I spend a lot of money on things many people believe is crap. I have never seen a T marked set of wings for sale, and would be pleased to have them.
 
US-Subs, Actually I'll see the guy tomorrow. These are not something I intend to collect, but could be used for trade, as trade is better than cash sometimes. As for spending lots of money on what other people might consider junk, that's how I came up with my screen name.
 
Sorry about the mistype. The fuze I have is a T49E1, early version of the M131 fuze as Steve mentioned earlier and is listed on the documents I attached.
 
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