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  1. #11
    UBIQUE
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    Most of the mortar remains we find on tasks are 3inch mortars,i have attatched some pics,the small poor quality pic shows how we normally find the remains of them,the circled areas are definately from phos rounds they tend to have a small nugget of the body still attatched where the tail screws on,with remains of phos trapped in the threads and on the nugget,again we tend to find the fuze about 12inches below the tail remains.we occasionally get ones as per MBs previous picture with a large proportion of the body still remaining ,The 4.2 again usually we have found tails only but again occasionally we get a fair sized chunk of the body,(this is when we find other bits of the fragmented body in the hole).
    Sometimes we get a complete body split open as per the attatched photos.The average depth we find the them is 3 feet (36inches) but they have been found much deeper (see attached photo).The type of ground we work on finding these in the UK can be very soft (moorland) often showing no signs of cratering
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by military EOD personnel .


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  2. #12
    ORDNANCE APPROVED/Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaba View Post
    @US-subs: The lack of a visible crater is another riddle. You can see a slight dip in the topsoil but that's all. I can imagine though that the lower part of a crater fills in fairly quickly by erosion of the surrounding soil which would possibly leave little traces. It makes you wonder how many of the older features (which we are actually looking for) are still visible. As there is no mixing between the topsoil and the underlaying layers, the crater or any later disturbance has filled in very quickly before any topsoil has flowed in with the rain (this being Holland in winter).
    By the way, thanks for introducing me to the wonderful world of crater-analysis, I had no idea. Definitely something i will look into further.

    The other replies make clear that we can rule out coincidence. Unfortunately i haven't looked for any other (body)fragments.
    Is there a difference in the shape of the tail between smoke and HE rounds? The mortars in the image in this thread http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/4-2-in...22.html?t=4022
    seem to lack a small protruding bit on the outside of the fins, which HE mortars seem to have (and my mortartail has as well).
    For the UK 4.2-inch there is a hex nut at the junction of the body and the tail for the smoke and CW rounds. For the HE round the nut is absent.
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  3. #13
    ORDNANCE APPROVED/Premium Member
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    Here is the best picture I can find at the moment. This is one that was intended for fill with CW agent, the WP smoke is the same body.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  4. #14
    ORDNANCE APPROVED/Premium Member
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    Found another. These were CW filled, found at the same site identified in another thread currently running. You can see the hex nut in the example on the left.
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  5. #15
    ORDNANCE APPROVED/Premium Member
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    And here they are with a picture this time.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    All dug or live ordnance shown in my posts is under EOD control and has been or will be dealt with accordingly by EOD personnel

  6. #16
    Ordnance Approved
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    Mortar bomb tail units

    Interesting thread. The 4.2 inch bombs I find are generally in one (body ruptured) or two (top half ripped from lower half) pieces. Those I find have the hexagon nut below the body, as explained by US-Subs. usually the tail unit is still attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Any live or dug ordnance shown in my posts has been dealt with accordingly by eod personel

  7. #17
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    Attached a few shots showing impact of empty rounds that were fired since it will give you an idea of what a live round would have looked like at point of impact. The depth of penetration would be a factor of ground density so wet sandy soil or an area that had already been brewed up would likely have placed the rounds completely underground when they went off.

    Two each showing 2-inch and 4.2-inch are attached. Can't find any shots of the 3-inch for comparison but found one where we had set up the tube so not sure where they went. My spotter seen in the photo was responsible for locating rounds and taking photos of interest.

    Both types of 2-inch tail unit are shown and the ones on the 4.2-inch rounds are the postwar pattern.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #18
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    I can tell you from my experiences overseas with the military that it is normal to find the fins close to the point of impact and sometimes laying in the splash mark even on hard ground (ie: impact on an asphalt road). We did some basic training on how to determine the location from where a mortar was fired based on the splash mark left on the ground. We were taught that mortar bombs will leave a splash mark that is larger on the side that faces the direction that the bomb was fired from and that artillery splashes are larger in the direction of travel. Also, when a mortar explodes the force of the explosion is predominately sideways and not towards the fuze and tail which explains why the tail is free to simply fall to the ground after the body explodes rather than being thrown back into the air. I've been in buildings that have had mortar impacts to the roofs and most of the time we would find the fins directly below the hole in the roof.
    Last edited by Infanteer; 15th April 2010 at 06:24 AM.

  9. #19
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    Thanks everybody for your reactions. Something that on first sight seemed to be very improbable is apparently more a rule than a exception.

  10. #20
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    Fuze is lighter and more easily pushed by frost?

 

 
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