Turkish Grenades at Gallipoli

[Anzac]

I wish to put a question to you if I may.

As my posts will indicate ,my main area of interest is Gallipoli.

I have a lot of info and photos of the Aussie "Jam Tin" bombs but I would
like , if possible some info on the Turkish "Cricket Ball" bomb.

Was it a cast iron ball with a brass screw-in cap to which a fuse was
inserted and then lit or was it a more sophisticated device?

Also , when was , if ever , the Mills Pattern Grenade used at Gallipoli?

Peter

 

[paul the grenade]

Hi Anzac.
This grenade is known as the Makadonia Grenade. It was made in Bulgaria in 1906 and is marked NM on the brass fuze holder. This is the manufacturer NAUM TJUFEKCHIEV. This is the grenade that was most used during both Balkan wars and was used by the Turks in the 1st WW
It is unusual as it is internally segmented. The simple match head fuze had a delay of about 8 seconds.
cheers, Paul

 

[Millsman]

The Mills No 5 was used briefly at Gallipoli just before the evacuation. There is a short account of Australian troops using them in Carlyon's book.

Volume production for the Mills only really got going in August / September 1915 and most were sent to France. I would also think that with a fairly long journey time the first Mills may not have reach Gallipoli until October or even possibly November, at the earliest and then troops would have to have some training with them. So there was very little chance to use them operationally there before the evacuation.

John

 

[vinnyw]

Not trying to highjact the post

Hi Anzac.
This grenade is known as the Makadonia Grenade. It was made in Bulgaria in 1906 and is marked NM on the brass fuze holder. This is the manufacturer NAUM TJUFEKCHIEV. This is the grenade that was most used during both Balkan wars and was used by the Turks in the 1st WW
It is unusual as it is internally segmented. The simple match head fuze had a delay of about 8 seconds.
cheers, Paul

Very nice one Paul.
vinny :tinysmile_classes_t

 

[Millsman]

Reviving an old thread. Did anyone see the article in the Armourer magazine about the Turkish Grenades, including a Turkish copy of the Mills No 5?

John

 

[Bonnex]

Reviving an old thread. Did anyone see the article in the Armourer magazine about the Turkish Grenades, including a Turkish copy of the Mills No 5?

John

John,

I dont have the article to hand but I recollect that the Turkish "Musketeer's No 2 Ordinary Pattern*" is described as a Turkish version on the Mills which at the time of reading I uttered some less than generous remarks. I think the author went to some length to dismiss the ring as a facility for carrying the grenade (because there were no photographs of it being used as such) and then went on to say how the ring was part of the mechanism (without any evidence to support the idea). The mechanism suggestion is just plain wrong of course as is the idea that it has any association with the Mills save its shape. I believe it to be the case that these 'No 2' grenades were prevalent at Gallipoli during the summer of 1915. The Bulgarian manufactured ball grenade used by the Turks has been referred to by Paul; there were also ball grenades with crude castings which could have originated in Turkey and at least one other type of Bulgarian hand grenade called the Odrin.



* After years of trying the get the script that is cast on the body decoded, an Iranian work colleague just happened to see the grenade and read out as per the designation given above (he had learnt Persian as a child and apparently the script is similar to that he was taught)

My father served in Gallipoli and I did ask him if he had seen Mills grenades there and he said a very definite no (but he was casevac'd in November so conceivably supplies arrived after he left or at a different part of peninsular).

 

[Fragman]

Hi. I spent a couple of weeks at Gallipoli back in the late eighties. At that time you were encouraged to take souvenirs and the locals were happy to provide you with whatever you were looking for. I found a lot of No15 parts (especially on the beaches) and the brass top of a Turkish grenade near Walkers Ridge. Unfortunately no Mills parts. I remember seeing a fantastic Jam Jar grenade in the museum there. The side had rusted out exposing the internals, you could say it had been naturally sectioned. Cheers

 

[Snufkin]

After years of trying the get the script that is cast on the body decoded, an Iranian work colleague just happened to see the grenade and read out as per the designation given above (he had learnt Persian as a child and apparently the script is similar to that he was taught)

Many thanks for getting the script translated, Norman. Until around the 1920s, when a Latinised alphabet was adopted, Turkey used a hybrid Arabic-Persian script known as Ottoman Turkish. I think that getting it deciphered is quite an achievement.




Tom.

 

[Bonnex]

Many thanks for getting the script translated, Norman. Until the around 1920s, when a Latinised alphabet was adopted, Turkey used a hybrid Arabic-Persian script known as Ottoman Turkish. I think that getting it deciphered is quite an achievement.




Tom.

Tom,

I can't tell you how many Turkish students I accosted at the University over the years in the hope that they could read the script and ironically Iraj, the person who translated it, made many of the introductions but I had not thought to ask him because he was Iranian. All of this was a long time ago, Iraj left us the best part of twenty years ago. In truth his first translation was "Musketeer's No 2 Market Pattern" but we decided that Market in this instance meant Plain or Ordinary and we stuck with the latter. With the upsurge in interest in Turkey concerning Gallipoli I expect a Turkish academic will evolve a more accurate translation but I am happy to stick with Iraj's decode.

 

[Millsman]

Here's photo of the article pages. Copyright - Armourer Jan/Feb 2013. I've just re - read it and the text relating to fig 8 states the 'close resemblance to the British Mills (Figure 8).

So no the Turks did not replicate the Mills No 5 (Phew). Will read more carefully in future!

John

 

[Gspragge]

What does it say about the catapult, appears to be one of ours ? a Leach ~

 

[Mike 39]

Reviving an old thread. Did anyone see the article in the Armourer magazine about the Turkish Grenades, including a Turkish copy of the Mills No 5?

John

Hi John
Any chance you might have the edition number and date of the Armourer you mention ?

Thanks
Mike

 

[FZG76]

I'm looking for that grenade and information on it. Is it possible to get a better picture of the book sent by Millsman?
thank you

 

[Millsman]

I'm out of the country at present but will try to dig out the Armourer mag if I still have it, when I get back.

John

 

[Millsman]

I'm back now so I'll search for the magazine.

John

 

[sgtlynn]

Found the article! The photo that the author says is fake (figure 10) is one of mine that I took at the Small Arms museum at Warminster.

 

[FZG76]

Thanks sgtlynn ans millsman. Nice article

 

[Millsman]

Thanks to SgtLynn for finding the article. I've got it somewhere!

John

 

[highlandotter]

This is the one I had.