Sorry, as said above ShKAS cartridges just have thicker case walls a deeper seated and crimped primer and sometimes a heavily crimped projectile.
No changes in the propelling charge.
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Fair Price? Old Nagant Ammo
- Thread starter Kilroy was Here
- Start date
Sorry, as said above ShKAS cartridges just have thicker case walls a deeper seated and crimped primer and sometimes a heavily crimped projectile.
No changes in the propelling charge.
DreamPhoto
Well-Known Member
No problem, we are all here to seeking for truth
I have some Yugo manuals wich say that, and also says that in cases of
emergency only, may use this ammunition ( With latter Ш ) for rifle. Main disadvantage is hard extraction of cases.
In some second sources says that Shkas may have this big rate of fire only with this special ammunition !?!?
I really want to know what is right data of this ammunition also.
Best regards,
Bane
Kilroy was Here
Well-Known Member
Thanks again everyone, There was more to know about Russian ammo and markings than I thought. It's also great I did not have to find out AFTER I bought the box of supposed 1938 ammo!
I never would have found all this info without the help of this forum!! BOCN members are the best there is! Thanks again!
Wishing everyone a Happy Holidays and New Years coming soon
No problem, we are all here to seeking for truth
I have some Yugo manuals wich say that, and also says that in cases of
emergency only, may use this ammunition ( With latter Ш ) for rifle. Main disadvantage is hard extraction of cases.
In some second sources says that Shkas may have this big rate of fire only with this special ammunition !?!?
I really want to know what is right data of this ammunition also.
Best regards,
Bane
DreamPhoto, it is very odd to hear that Yugoslav manuals are stating this since Russian official publications do not. The harder extraction comes from the thick walled cases. This was the reason why Russian cartridges which did not pass acceptance tests were downgraded to infantry ammunition and got a translucent laquer coating for easier extraction.
Also when "real" ShKAS ammo had to be fired in emergency cases from infantry weapons the cartridges had to be oiled before.
It would be very interesting to have a look at these Yugoslav manuals.
Kilroy, this was only a tiny fraction of unique characteristics of Soviet/Russian ammunition. It is a universe of it's own and studying it is a 24/7 job.
DreamPhoto
Well-Known Member
I must scan that Yugo manual but in this manual say similar things like I say and like EOD wright Also when "real" ShKAS ammo had to be fired in emergency cases from infantry weapons the cartridges had to be oiled before.)
But look on this link, have some interesting things about Skas ammo!
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ordnance/ShKAS/ShKAS.html
Best regards,
Bane
Also when "real" ShKAS ammo had to be fired in emergency cases from infantry weapons the cartridges had to be oiled before.)But look on this link, have some interesting things about Skas ammo!
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ordnance/ShKAS/ShKAS.html
Best regards,
Bane
DreamPhoto
Well-Known Member
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
ShKAS
I think that is a lot of nonsense, especially the part about M-N rifles exploding in one's face! For a start the author cannot spell "Breech"!
Can I quote from the translation of D.N.Bolotin's official history of Soviet small arms.
"Nikolay Elizarov designed a series of bullets especially for the ShKAS. It included tracer, incendiary,and armour-piercing incendiary bullets capable of setting fire to petrol tanks protected with armour. The cartridges all had a peculiarity: their bullets were crimped into the necks extremely strongly, and the primers were seated tightly in their pockets. Cartridge cases loaded with standard bullets had double concentric crimps at the mouth, the case neck walls being suitable thickened."
Bolotin goes on to say that when the gun entered service multiple stoppages occurred. Investigation showed that ammunition with imported primers worked well, but the varnish used to seal the internal foil cover of domestic produced primers produced misfires.
He states "So, the whole research process started afresh and new varnish was soon created to meet all the requirements. Misfires stopped forever.
The result of the trials was that the combat and handling characteristics of the ShKAS were significantly improved until, by 1935, endurance was not less than 15,000 rounds".
Not a word there about high pressure or exploding rifles!
Regards
TonyE
I think that is a lot of nonsense, especially the part about M-N rifles exploding in one's face! For a start the author cannot spell "Breech"!
Can I quote from the translation of D.N.Bolotin's official history of Soviet small arms.
"Nikolay Elizarov designed a series of bullets especially for the ShKAS. It included tracer, incendiary,and armour-piercing incendiary bullets capable of setting fire to petrol tanks protected with armour. The cartridges all had a peculiarity: their bullets were crimped into the necks extremely strongly, and the primers were seated tightly in their pockets. Cartridge cases loaded with standard bullets had double concentric crimps at the mouth, the case neck walls being suitable thickened."
Bolotin goes on to say that when the gun entered service multiple stoppages occurred. Investigation showed that ammunition with imported primers worked well, but the varnish used to seal the internal foil cover of domestic produced primers produced misfires.
He states "So, the whole research process started afresh and new varnish was soon created to meet all the requirements. Misfires stopped forever.
The result of the trials was that the combat and handling characteristics of the ShKAS were significantly improved until, by 1935, endurance was not less than 15,000 rounds".
Not a word there about high pressure or exploding rifles!
Regards
TonyE
I must scan that Yugo manual but in this manual say similar things like I say and like EOD wright
But look on this link, have some interesting things about Skas ammo!
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Ordnance/ShKAS/ShKAS.html
Best regards,
Bane
Yes, this is a secondary source where people are copying each other's mistakes. The belt links shown there are also dead wrong.
This is the reason why I always prefer original documents and no articles by people who often write what they think and not what they know (not much to write then for many of those).
This is why I stick to original Russian manuals which say nothing about a higher chamber pressure.
The guy of the mosin-nagant website should know much better since he is reading also in the IAA forum where we discussed this many times before.
Last edited:
DreamPhoto
Well-Known Member
Well, guys what I may say more...
I collect and research small arms ammunition almost 30 year and have this data from diverse source long time ago and I even can`t remember for where, but who knows... maybe your sources is right.
Fact is that I don`t have exactly data for powder weight, but I have one or two original round in my collection and now seems that I must do some measuring by my self and then we know
Cheers !
Bane
I collect and research small arms ammunition almost 30 year and have this data from diverse source long time ago and I even can`t remember for where, but who knows... maybe your sources is right.
Fact is that I don`t have exactly data for powder weight, but I have one or two original round in my collection and now seems that I must do some measuring by my self and then we know
Cheers !
Bane