German aircraft rounds

[smle2009]

Not quiet sure how it happened,but I seem to have developed a soft spot for WWII german aircraft cannon rounds.
So far I have;
13mm MG131/13
HE-T
AP-T
15mm MG151/15
AP-T
20mm MG FF
AP-I
20mm MG151/20
INC-T-SD
AP-I
Practice
So lts more loads to find,anybody have any idea of all the different loads?
and of course examples of the 30mm MK108 and 30mm MK101/103 to find,which could be fun!

All the best
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Reference

You need to get a copy of "Handbuch der Flugzeug Bordwaffenmunition 1936 - 1945" which has the drawings for every load of aircraft ammo from 13mm to 8.8cm.

It was reprinted by Matthias Braun in 1977 and is available on the net somewhere as a pay-for download. It has all the ballistics of the ammunition as well as construction details and tells you all you want to know. It is in German but as it is mainly drawings that does not matter. It is over 250 pages.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Tony Williams]

Jakob Lippert's book Deutsche Bordwaffen Munition bis 1945 is good, too. It consists mostly of drawings of sectioned projectiles, service and experimental, plus many experimental cartridge cases and coloured drawings of the various service projectiles. It goes up to 30mm.

Peter Labbett also produced a couple of good TAGs covering German ammo 13-30mm.

Don't forget the bigger chaps:

 

[smle2009]

Thanks Tony & Tony,
Don't temp me with the 'bigger chaps',I have a cut off point at,and including 30mm, and been very good and 'stuck' with it....well mainly........................................

All the best
Tony

 

[navyman]

20mm phosphorus ?

Hello Tonies,
I was told that this round I have is a German 20mm aircraft cannon round, phosphorus type. Is this correct and if so can you explain how they worked?
The headstamp reads; htg 44 145 and the projectile is stamped; am 22 44.
Cheers,
Guy.

 

[pzgr40/42]

Hey Tony,

I'll try to get some pics posted here next year, or I'll send you some by mail.
I have Bordwaffen ammo in the 7,92 mm to 5 cm range (the 7,5 cm being the same as the 7,5 cm PaK, don't know about the primer for sure though !)

greetz,

Menno.

 

[smle2009]

Hello Tonies,
I was told that this round I have is a German 20mm aircraft cannon round, phosphorus type. Is this correct and if so can you explain how they worked?
The headstamp reads; htg 44 145 and the projectile is stamped; am 22 44.
Cheers,
Guy.

Hi Guy,
yes that is correct, it is a armour piercing incendiary,the incendiary material being phosphorus...fairly sure it is of the bursting type and is a 20mm MG 151/20 cannon round...same headstamp as the one I have by the way.

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

Hey Tony,

I'll try to get some pics posted here next year, or I'll send you some by mail.
I have Bordwaffen ammo in the 7,92 mm to 5 cm range (the 7,5 cm being the same as the 7,5 cm PaK, don't know about the primer for sure though !)

greetz,

Menno.

Hi Menno,
Would be great to see the pics.
All the best
Tony

 

[Tony Williams]

I was told that this round I have is a German 20mm aircraft cannon round, phosphorus type. Is this correct and if so can you explain how they worked?

The German API cannon rounds generally consisted of a thick-walled, hardened-steel shell, inside of which was inserted a capsule of incendiary material (usually made out of light-alloy, I think). This capsule burst on impact, ejecting the incendiary material out of the base of the shell.

Incidentally, the capsule by itself looks rather like a tapered, round-nosed bullet.

 

[TonyE]

Drawing

Navyman - here is the drawing of your round. You can see the aluminium/magnesium container that t'other Tony mentioned.

Regards
TonyE

 

[blackwatch]

The German API cannon rounds generally consisted of a thick-walled, hardened-steel shell, inside of which was inserted a capsule of incendiary material (usually made out of light-alloy, I think). This capsule burst on impact, ejecting the incendiary material out of the base of the shell.

Incidentally, the capsule by itself looks rather like a tapered, round-nosed bullet.

The shell breaks into pieces by impact.
these capule,s where made of alloy and glass,
And also made of bakelite (blindplugs)
i shall take a picture of the bakelite one , if i can find him

 

[kmraisu]

Hi
In old wartime manual says that "When hitting very hard object the grenade brakes near the driving band and phosphorous bursts...."
Hope this helps

kmraisu

Hello Tonies,
I was told that this round I have is a German 20mm aircraft cannon round, phosphorus type. Is this correct and if so can you explain how they worked?
The headstamp reads; htg 44 145 and the projectile is stamped; am 22 44.
Cheers,
Guy.

 

[banksy-2k10]

hello

nice collection ! in the last pic what is the bule round in the middle ?

kind regards
alex

alexanderstevens75@yahoo.com

 

[Lou]

Thanks Tony & Tony,
Don't temp me with the 'bigger chaps',I have a cut off point at,and including 30mm, and been very good and 'stuck' with it....well mainly........................................

I had the same self imposed restriction but,I couldnt help myself. Besides, one little 5cm 50X420R doesnt take up too much space,,,:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[smle2009]

Thanks Tony & Tony,
Don't temp me with the 'bigger chaps',I have a cut off point at,and including 30mm, and been very good and 'stuck' with it....well mainly........................................

I had the same self imposed restriction but,I couldnt help myself. Besides, one little 5cm 50X420R doesnt take up too much space,,,:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

View attachment 55250View attachment 55251View attachment 55252View attachment 55253

Yes,tell me about it! I totally ignore the WW1 French 75mm standing in the corner of my living room,nothing to do with me,don't even know how it got there..............................

Tony

 

[Lou]

And you are right. 3cm stuff is fun to find.

 

[jiipee76]

I would recommend getting German manual: Handbuch der Flugzeug Bordwaffenmunition.It can be found in PDF format from internet.It is wartime manual,have Penetration data,lots of facts about casings/detonators/tailcapsules...You name it,this manual have information about it.

Alone MG 131/13 had 17 different warheads.MG151/15 had 14different warheads.MG151/20 and MG FF had 22 different types of warheads

 

[Weasel]

Hi Jiipee76,
Thank you to Tony E and your self for mentioning this book. I did a quick search and managed to get a original 1977 print for 35 euro's, so there are still one or two copy's out there to be found. A fantastic resource if you are interested in or collecting these rounds, how is the collection going now Tony (smle Tony) that is, would love to see an updated picture if you have one.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[smle2009]

Hi Weasel,
afraid the German aircraft cannon front has stalled a bit as I went on a 50cal and 20mm Hispano crusade and so far have only added a 1940 brass cased AP-HE MG FF
Can put a photo on in the morning if you want when light is better.
All the best
Tony

 

[smle2009]

A quick update on the (slow) progress of collecting these cannon rounds,no 30mm yet:tinysmile_cry_t:

20mm MG FF......... AP-HE
20MM MG FF......... HE-MINE-SD
20MM MG 151/20... HE-MINE-SD

Cheers
Tony