French WW2 81mm Mortar ammunition

[Draoich]

Hi,
I wonder if anyone has information on French Mle. 1932, Mle 1931, or Mle. 1935' 81mm mortar ammunition, particularly details like weight, maximum range on highest charge, and number of charges used. The information I have seen is often contradictory. Any photos of these mortar bomb types would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Draoich

 

[Draoich]

Some interesting information is contained in the attached Portuguese range tables for the Brandt M937 8cm mortar (this is the 81mm Mle. 27/31), which was adopted by the Portuguese Army in 1937. The Portuguese tables, from which this information was derived, appear to date from the early 1950s. This is because the maximum ranges listed are much greater than those for the pre-war Mle. 27/31s Type F.A.32shell. The listed maximum ranges are comparable to another 1951 dated range table for the Irish Armys Mle. 27/31 Brandt mortars. The ammunitions listed in the Portuguese Army Table No.s 618-619 are the Type F.A. 31 and the Type A. 31 Standard Shell projectiles, which weighed 3.340 kg and had a maximum range of 3947 metres on Charge 6 (1 Primary plus 6 increments). These tables also listed the Type G.C. 31 Heavy Shell projectile, which weighed 6.845 kg and had a maximum range of 1620 metres on Charge 4 (1 Primary plus 4 increments).

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,
Informations about French mortar 81mm before WW2

 

[MINENAZ16]

Photo 1 : 81mm mod 1936 RF fonte acire (for 81mm mortar 1932 Maginot line). H=297mm, W=3.5kg, explosive=400 grammes (MDN or NX), propulsion=10.3gr balistite or 15.7gr or 55gr for distance max 3.6km
Photo 2 : 81mm mod 1924/27 fonte aciere. H=282mm, W=3.5kg, explosive=400 grammes (MDN or NX), White phosphorus possible.
Photo 3 : 81mm mod 1932 fonte aciere. H=283, W=3.5kg, explosive=400 gr (Mdn or Nx), WP possible.
Photo 4 : 81mm mod 1935 High Capacity acier. H=553mm, W=7kg, explosive=2kg (Melinite Dinitro Naphtalene)

Az16

 

[Draoich]

Hi MINENAZ16,
Thanks for the great photos. I presume that the 81mm mortar 1932 (Maginot line), which would fire the 81mm mod 1936 RF fonte acire shown in photo 1, was a permanently emplaced mortar. The maximum range of 3600 metres is impressive.
By comparison, I understand that the Mle 27/31 Mortar could fire the FA Mle. 1932 HE light shell (3.345 kg incl. 530g explosive) to a maximum range of 2850 metres with a V of 174 m/s, and this would require the Primary charge plus 6 incremental charges. I have attached a photo of what I believe is an FA Mle. 1932 HE light shell.
Draoich

 

[al'saad]

french wwii era mortar shells are identical to same era italian shells. so i am interested what is their common origin, and what can be distinctive identification mark respectively if they are find in field condition-stencils not readible.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hi Draoich,

On your photo is not a 1932 but a 24/27 model : 8 fins on the 24/27 and 6 fins with hole on 32.
Actually the 27/31 mortar could fire FA 24/27, FA 32 and HC 35
Spcial mortar called RF (Rgion Fortifie) modle 1932 was intalled on Maginot Line (for shells FA 32 and 36 RF for long range)
A french link here : http://fr.academic.ru/dic.nsf/frwiki/1190493




Az16 from France.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hi Al'saad,

It' s not easy to make the difference between French and Italian mortar shells in field conditions (without colors). Italians manufactured the Fa 1932 and the GC (Grande Capacit) 1935 under Brandt licence. They used shells from other nations too.
Fuzes used : Brandt V18 (JR 81) and Remondy ITR.

Az16

 

[Draoich]

Hi Az16,
Thanks for pointing out the difference btween an FA Mle 24/27 and an FA Mle 32 mortar shell. Now I can tell the difference! That sort of information is really useful. This time I have included some photos of a Belgian pre-war mortar shell for a Brandt mortar. I can only partially make out what is written on the base of the primary cartridge.
Draoich

 

[wyngo]

Hi Al'saad, Mortar and mortar ammunition WWII italian made are ispired of french ammunition;
in 1935 italian army adopt the middle mortar model35, largely ispired to Brandt model in service on French Army.
The ammunition in service are 3 basic type's: Ghisa Acciaiosa (Cast Iron) He mortar bomb with IR81 fuze, 475g of TNT or mix TNT-Binitronaftalene; Ghisa acciaiosa WP-Smoke/Oleum mix mortar bomb, same fuze; Grande Capacita' , steel body, He Mortar bomb, same fuze and 1,750kg of TNT-Binitronaftalene mix.
I have information of other types of mortar ammunition, one chemical filled with Yprite or phosgene; another special ammunition employed for the use against airplanes, the system connected weight to a parachute with a long steel cable, to prevent the airplanes to follow a precise rout.
Marking and stencilled are, red head x explosive ammunition, black head x wp-smoke ammunition and yellow head x chemical ammunition.
Italian mortar and artillery chemical ammunition have a distinctive lead ring among the fuze and the body.
If you have required for me contact me.
Ciao Francesco

 

[kz11gr]

Hello

and this one ?

 

[Evo99]

FA Mle. 1932