12.7x76 Spotting Round

[zwerge]

A .50 cal. spotter I got at a gun show recently.

 

[raymeketa]

zwerge

That appears to be a Cal .50 Spotter case (either M48 or M48A1) that has been fired and a fired Cal .50 bullet put in the case for display.

Ray

 

[TonyE]

I was just about to reply with the same comments when I saw your post, Ray!

Although we loaded several different types of .50 Spotter in the UK with bullets that had closed noses, am I right in thinking that all the US types had open noses with a visible primer/initiator?

Regards
TonyE

 

[Slick]

Here is what I think is the "normal" U.S. loading. Ignore the hull, it's a regular shell that was reloaded with the spotting projectile.

 

[raymeketa]

I'm far from an expert on the various Spotter/Tracer rounds, or anything else for that matter. In addition to the M48 series, there are/were also cartridges using the full length 50 BMG case as well as a special short, belted case. The one shown by zwerge is most commonly referred to as the Battalion Anti Tank (BAT) cartridge and was a ranging round for the 106mm recoiless rifle. It was fired in a gas-operated "rifle" (M8) mounted on top of the recoiless rifle. There were experimental rounds using different bullet designs but I believe that the only bullets officially adopted were the M48 and M48A1 which uses the nose primer as shown in Rick's photo, and the M48A2 which has a closed nose and no primer. There are two different cases, one with a standard percussion primer and one with a flash tube.

As a footnote, the BAT case is very popular among long range competitors who reload it with high BC match bullets for 1000 yard competition.

Ray

 

[Slick]

Firstly, Ray is an expert at being humble. That's all I'll say about that. Those who know. . .

Secondly, here are some other examples of projectiles being stuck in holes that fit. I traded away the previously posted shell but have managed to hang on to these examples. And for size reference, I included the dummy Cal. 50. Which is nice and old. And the ammo can for the topic shell.

Rick

 

[raymeketa]

Rick - The photo of the case without the primer - that is one that used a flash tube. Believe it or don't, some of the shooters that I mentioned used these cases and seated a conventional primer.

That's a neat can. I've never seen one of those.

Ray

 

[Slick]

I believe EVERYTHING you say, Ray. Everything. And thanks for noticing my can.

 

[raymeketa]

. . .And thanks for noticing my can.

As tempting as it is, I'm not going to touch that line!

Ray

 

[zwerge]

Thanks for the info gents,much appreciated.

 

[Slick]

Here's the IAA Cartridge of the Month reference: http://cartridgecollectors.org/cmo/cmo08dec.htm

 

[Tony Williams]

In addition to the M48 series, there are/were also cartridges using the full length 50 BMG case as well as a special short, belted case.

The full-length .50 BMG spotters were used by the British Army in 105mm Centurion and 120mm Chieftain tanks, as the standard ranging method. The same yellow+red bullet tip colours were used. The Centurion loading was designated (and headstamped) L11, the Chieftain one had a longer-range tracer and was designated L13. France also used these .50 BMG ranging rounds.

I've never heard of the "special short, belted case" variant Ray - can you post more details and preferably a pic? What was it used for?

 

[smle2009]

Here are the .50 spotting rounds I have

Left to right
LC 78
K 76 .50 Kynoch factory dummy,no primer
K 66 L10A1 Drill chrome finish
K 76 L10A1 Matt finish
K 69 L11A2 Centurion

 

[TonyE]

There was a wide range of British experimental .50" spotter rounds in both the BAT and BMG cases. I have posted these before I think, but here are a few.

The first two show various Kynoch experimentals. The fired case is an XL7E1 with a screw in primer with long flash tube. It is on the right in picture 3. No British manufactured BAT rounds actually entered service, instead M48A1 ammo being purchased from the US.

Next is a series of L11A1 rounds, experimental and service. The earliest rounds were red and blue tipped as they were tracer/incendiaries.

Then L11A2 and finally the XL13E1 and L13A1 service rounds. the mustard tipped rounds are inert filled for ballistic proofing.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Bockscar]

Here are the spotter rounds in my collection....one is a cutaway showing the long booster tube. The other is a blue/greenish coloured wooden bulleted drill round and the last one has the bullet soldered into place. a 50" calibre bullet is for scale.

 

[TonyE]

Interesting. I have not seen a wood bulletted drill round for the spotter before. What is the headstamp? Also, what is the headstamp of the sectioned round, is it US or British? The flash tube of the XL7E1 is of a different form. I will scan the drawing and post it later.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Bockscar]

Tony,

All the rounds shown are American in origin....
The wooden bulleted drill round bears the headstamp " F A 5 9", the sectioned round is " L C 6 9 " a full ten years apart. Primers have been struck andthe seal colour on both of these is red.
The round with the soldered in projectile is headstamped " L C 5 4 " and the primer has been removed.

 

[raymeketa]

Tony W

I don't have any of the short belted rounds. I "borrowed" this photo from CSAEOD's auction list. He says they were experimental, developed during the 50s and 60s for antitank weapon systems especially the 105 and 106mm recoiless types. That's all I know about them.

Ray

 

[smle2009]

Interesting. I have not seen a wood bulletted drill round for the spotter before. What is the headstamp? Also, what is the headstamp of the sectioned round, is it US or British? The flash tube of the XL7E1 is of a different form. I will scan the drawing and post it later.

Regards
TonyE

Sorry for reopening an old thread but I've just found out the wood bulletted dummy in boxcars photo is Danish, manufactured reusing US cases.

Tony

 

[Bockscar]

SMLE 2009,
Tony, don't be sorry for reviving an old thread when you supply an answer to the country of origin of a cartridgdge in my collection! That one has been eluding me for years! Another record card ( old system!!) can now be updated!
cheers!

Bockscar.