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  1. #1
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    2cm Pzgr40 Hartkern Fakes

    As SG500 has pointed out in a recent thread the existence of a fake 3.7cm Hartkern projectile i thought i should show some picture of a few different 2cm Pzgr40 Hartkern fakes as these seem to be still out there waiting to catch people out, i have added a couple of pictures of a genuine one for comparison. I found the pictures of the fakes on WK2ammo via a google image search so credit to them for the pictures, while the genuine one is in my collection.

    The first two are both milled from one piece of steel and have a smooth hole drilled in the base, both are stamped "aux 44"
    Jord.07.jpg

    The next one i don't know much about at all other than it has been identified as a fake

    20mmapsilver.jpg20mmapsilverclsup.jpg

    The third one is quite a good copy although again machined from one piece of ally with the driving band painted with copper coloured paint
    Pzgr1.jpgpzgr4.jpg

    The last two pictures are a genuine Pzgr40 2cm Hartkern round, made from a very light alloy with a tungsten core and screw in tracer element, this is the shorter of the two variants that were produced.

    2cm Hartkern.jpg2cm Hartkern 01.jpg

    There must be more fakes out there so please add them to the thread if you see them, Best regards Weasel.
    Last edited by Weasel; 26th July 2011 at 09:05 PM.
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  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Weasel For This Useful Post:

    Lou (29th July 2011), rcaf53 (26th July 2011), RichardB (14th August 2011), SG500 (25th July 2011), waffenamt (28th July 2011)

  3. #2
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    Here another genuine one. Marked aux 3e41 WaA109. Machined in one aluminium piece, copper driving band and left hand threaded tracer plug. Cavity in tracer plug is unusual short - only 7,5mm deep.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #3
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    Does anyone else have an example of real vs fake??? And are they pretty hard to find???

  5. #4
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    Hi Lou,
    Looking forward to anyone else showing any they might have, as far as are they hard to find i would have to say that the one i have is the only one i have seen for sale in about 20 years but maybe i have not been looking in the right place. They were i seem to remember only made for a relatively short period of time,
    Best Weasel.
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  6. #5
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    Here's the one I picked up off ebay a few years ago.
    Dave.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #6
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    Very nice Dave,
    That one must have past me by on ebay, so they do crop up sometimes. Thank you for showing that one,
    Best Weasel.
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel View Post
    Very nice Dave,
    That one must have past me by on ebay, so they do crop up sometimes. Thank you for showing that one,
    Best Weasel.
    Thanks, it was shoved in the top of a knackered case that was converted into a cigarette lighter, fortunately they'd not messed with the projectile.
    Dave.

  9. #8
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    Hello Chaps,

    Here's a couple of images of a Bk 3,7 Hartkernmunition I have. Made in by Schmidt & Clemens, Frankfurt in 1945.

    Given the scarcity of Tungsten in 1945 Germany it shows the value the Germans placed on the Bk3,7 in the anti armour role.

    The cutaway is a Bk3,7 Minengrenate (3.7cm M-Gesch. Patr18 L'spur mit Zerl.) round as used in the Bf110G2/R1 in anti bomber role.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to thehairbarebunch For This Useful Post:

    Tony Williams (27th August 2014)

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehairbarebunch View Post
    The cutaway is a Bk3,7 Minengrenate (3.7cm M-Gesch. Patr18 L'spur mit Zerl.) round as used in the Bf110G2/R1 in anti bomber role.
    I am lusting after that one

    This picture of rounds with sub-calibre penetrators in my collection includes a 2cm; that one, plus the French 37mm and the British 2pr SV Mk2 all have replica projectiles (and I bought them knowing that). The 28/20 has a genuine projectile except for the replica light-alloy cap.

    The 2pr SV Mk 1 and the two German 37mm are genuine AFAIK (I also have a German 3cm PzGr 40 for the MK 103 which is genuine, I believe).


    SubcalAmmo2.jpg

    20x138B (German 2 cm Kwk 30/38 APCR), 28x187R (German 28/20mm PzB 41 - Gerlich squeezebore), 37x94R(French 37mm Mle 1935 APCR),37x249R (German 3,7 cm PaK 36 Pzgr.40), 37x263B (German BK 3,7 Pzgr.40), 40x304R (British 2 pdr APSV Mk 1: Littlejohn squeezebore), 40x304R(British 2 pdr APSV Mk 2: Littlejohn squeezebore)


  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Tony Williams For This Useful Post:

    thehairbarebunch (27th August 2014)

  13. #10
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    Hi Tony,

    My sPzB41 is the same as yours (alloy cap). It seems to be rare to get one with a good magnesium cap. I also lust after your MK103 Hartkern.

    Most of the German WW2 tungsten cored rounds are like the proverbial hens teeth to get hold of, which is why I suppose they cost a bloody fortune.

    To be honest, for many years your collection (and books) and the way you have displayed them have been a pretty inspirational reference to me and I'm sure to many others as-well. So thanks for that.

 

 
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