baton round projectile stick in case

[batonroundcollector]

i recently bought a baton round online (can't remember name of store - somewhere in west midlands i think??) which i believe is an experimental type; case is bare metal and projectile is blueish-grey cylindrical 'plastic' type (no its not an L60A1!) - i will post pic for positive identification soon... however the projectile is jammed in the case with the top stuck out with a brown residue around where they meet - can anyone suggest how i might get it out?

cheers

 

[batonroundcollector]

here is a pic... the projectile can be pushed further into the case but i can't get it out!!

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

I wonder if your projectile has an angled driving band/seal on it-you may be able to "lube" it out with some washing up liquid-worth a try and should not damage the plastic.
Good luck.

 

[batonroundcollector]

thanks chris but could not lube it out... after many different attempts i had the idea to squirt compressed air from an air duster into the hole in the base as there is no primer in - it shot straight out (and my kitchen window survived the impact!!)

 

[batonroundcollector]

btw can anyone identify this one? projectile is very hard, like L21A1 material. markings on base are 'W' and '12/85'... might be a protoype for L-series?

 

[batonroundcollector]

Bumping this ancient thread as although I did get projectile free, I did not get an ID... Who at least is maker 'W'? Other than headstamp, no other markings on case...

Case and projectile on the left of pic:

 

[reccetrooper]

I don’t know who ‘W’ is, but I have several several L5A4 cases made by ‘W’ that were loaded by Sanquhar (SQ) or Chorley (CY), so ‘W’ is the maker of the case.

I have one similar blue/grey baton, and that is in a commercial, “RD 38mm A-RIOT BATON 90-130m H371” loaded by Haley & Weller in 11/88.

It might be that your case is an unfinished or scrubbed L5A4 case that has been paired with a commercial baton. As you know, used batons and cases are often mismatched when sold on the collectors market.

Maybe Muskey knows the answers to your questions, I’m sure he’ll chip in if he sees your post.

 

[batonroundcollector]

Interesting thanks George! I've seen many what appear to be UK-made commercial (as in not L-series) batons for sale of late (even found one in my collection I didn't know I had); would be interested in more info on these, and who they were sold to... Am thinking the third, fourth and fifth cases of mine shown below fit that description (and that projectiles are incorrect - from L2 batons)...

 

[Muskey]

Hi, I think George has hit the nail on the head with his suggestion the unmarked silver case was taken from the production line. I have a similar one I was given by Peter Labbett that was also from the production line (in fact, mine was made in 06/80, FPL, so should've had the machined step in the case wall, but has evaded this step, pictures above.) Regarding the HV370 Rubber Baton cartridge, I have this but it came with a black rubber flat nosed baton plug, and I also have the Plastic Baton equivalent (HV375), pictures above. My HV370 has a loading code of BY, year of loading 1988, with a printed thistle on the reverse. I can't confirm if my baton projectile is original to the case, but I think your case may be too late to have an L2 style baton projectile if it's from the same period. I put an enquiry on to this forum about who the loading facility BY could be, and although I got a couple of interesting suggestions, Birtley and Brocks York, unfortunately nothing could be confirmed. I've also included a picture of the Short Range version (H370) of the Haley & Weller PBR that George referred to re the LR version. All the best, Pete.

 

[reccetrooper]

Hi Marc, here are my thoughts about the baton rounds you posted.
L2A2 plain case. if the baton is a soft rubber, approx 14.7cm, and has a seam that is rubbed down below the obturating ring it could be an early L2A2 baton and correct, if hard rubber, approx 15cm, with full length casting seam, it may be from an L2A1.
L2A2 black case. Incorrect baton, it should have a standard L2A2 baton that was injection moulded without a seam line, and with a dimple on the nose.
The HV370, likely to be Haley & Weller, it should have a flat ended black baton.
The last two are unused commercial cases.

Be aware that there was a batch of pointed batons made for a proposed film several years ago. These were cast in a soft black material with a full length seam, and have visible defects. When the film project was cancelled, the prop maker sold the batons and at least one person has sold them as genuine batons to unsuspecting tourists in NI. I did a post about these fakes when I bought some from an eBay seller.

Edit: I see Pete replied whilst I was (slowly) writing my response.

 

[reccetrooper]

Link to the fake baton thread. http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/98060

 

[batonroundcollector]

Thanks both that's really useful - I have a lot to learn! Like many I'm sure I picked up many of these up back in the day assuming that the projectile belonged with the case and even swapped a few round myself - now I know better... Will now check these rounds and see what I have; looks like I'll be needing the correct combinations now so if anyone has them to spare please let me know

 

[batonroundcollector]

Hi Marc, here are my thoughts about the baton rounds you posted.
L2A2 plain case. if the baton is a soft rubber, approx 14.7cm, and has a seam that is rubbed down below the obturating ring it could be an early L2A2 baton and correct, if hard rubber, approx 15cm, with full length casting seam, it may be from an L2A1.
L2A2 black case. Incorrect baton, it should have a standard L2A2 baton that was injection moulded without a seam line, and with a dimple on the nose.
The HV370, likely to be Haley & Weller, it should have a flat ended black baton.
The last two are unused commercial cases.

Be aware that there was a batch of pointed batons made for a proposed film several years ago. These were cast in a soft black material with a full length seam, and have visible defects. When the film project was cancelled, the prop maker sold the batons and at least one person has sold them as genuine batons to unsuspecting tourists in NI. I did a post about these fakes when I bought some from an eBay seller.

Edit: I see Pete replied whilst I was (slowly) writing my response.

Just dug out my rounds and removed the incorrect projectiles (I had a L3A1 case with one of these inside too - I know they used a flat baton)...

Top row left to right: my L2A1 and L2A2 plain case contained projectile with full length casting seam; my L2A2 black case contained projectile without a seam line, and with a dimple on the nose.

Bottom row left to right - my now loose projectiles: first and second with full length casting seam and third without a seam line, and with a dimple on the nose.

Exact lengths hard to ascertain without accurate measurement - assume the rubber might distort somewhat on firing?