M139 CW bomblet

[Dragontooth]

Hi guys,


desperately looking for info about development and production of this piece.
According to Hazord it was made by Norris Industires of Vernon, CA. Haz. you have PM!
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?p=27197&highlight=M139#post27197

Can anyone verify this about Norris, or is it false?
I have been in touch with a gentleman from Minnessota who was involved with Honeywell and he claims that Honeywell Inc. made it and that only Honey. had the knowhow to make this bomblet.Anybody know haow many were made?

Sory if ia m not so polite my back is kiilling me. THANK YOU.
Best,
Dave

 

[US-Subs]

Don't know about Norris, but the gentleman from Minnesota is full of crap. In the 1950s-60s there were several companies making aluminum submunitions for CW / BW applications, on some occasions there were competing designs. The M139 went through a long development phase, there were many variations. Under development the M139 was the E130, with R designations for the variants (E1390R1, etc). There are probably figures somewhere on how many were eventually stockpiled, but doubtful that there is anything on how many were made.

 

[Dragontooth]

Don't know about Norris, but the gentleman from Minnesota is full of crap. In the 1950s-60s there were several companies making aluminum submunitions for CW / BW applications, on some occasions there were competing designs. The M139 went through a long development phase, there were many variations. Under development the M139 was the E130, with R designations for the variants (E1390R1, etc). There are probably figures somewhere on how many were eventually stockpiled, but doubtful that there is anything on how many were made.

hi there, Jeff. thank you for your response. if you do have the time some time please reply to my email (not meaning to push) i just want to stay in touch with you, as i greatly admire you for your knowledge. Hazord can enlighten us on this and tell us about Norris and the CW defense capability it had. BTW they are still in business.

maybe he made a mistake i can't judge. which CW/BW munitions were there and who made what? was there a company well known for CW and BW munitions? i guess the engineering aspect is more complicated as you will have liquid or dry agents that are meant to disperse not explode. maybe he meant the BZ bomblet that Honeywell made. he was an ex-engineer there that i keep in touch with infrequently...he's kind of hard of hearing.

http://www.stormingmedia.us/95/9571/0957105.html

 

[HAZORD]

I guess we need to have a brief discussion about R&D when it comes to complex weapons, and the way that the government procures material for that R&D. I worked as an Ordnance Engineer for Norris, saw the materials manufactured, and worked on a variety of different projects. Ordnance materials are procured in various ways, depending upon the robustness of the design, if it has been released for production, or is being produced in small quantities for testing. While I was at Norris, we would get very small R&D contracts to produce limited quantities of items for testing in the R&D phases of new systems, while at the same time manufactureing up to 24,000 155mm ICM projectiles per month. Norris made round/rotational parts by ironing or forging material with dies, out of aluminum, steel, brass, etc.

During the beginning phases of procuremnt and R&D, the government will put out an RFQ for small quantities of items, from a dozen to a few hundred of an item. Various companies bid the contrat, and then the lowest bidder gets the contract. The customer will test fire the item and update their design, and then send out another RFQ for the revised design. This proces will continue, till they get the items to perform reliably and give them the results they want. Sometimes the manufacturers such as Norris, will be subcontractors to larger companies, producing the projectile or warhead that is a component of a larger design. So, Honeywell might have been the main contractor, but Norris made the forged aluminum components that made up the bomblet, which were combined with other supplied components such as fuzes, etc. to make up the final assembly. I know Norris made the parts, because I saw them in the factory. These days, you should never assume that an individual company creates all of the components of a complex system. Different private companies have very specific capabilities for manufacturing parts, therefore the list of companies that can produce certain components can be very small. The largest hydraulic press that Norris operated was rated at 6,000 tons. The only other press like that in the world, was at the Naval Gun Factory, so items that required that much pressure could only be manufactured in those two places. The submunitions that you listed were formed in presses, and that was what Norris was good at, so they got a lot of R & D projects that required press work.

 

[Dragontooth]

Hazord, that was very informative. I stand corrected. Did Norris also make the E139 bomblet? I always obsess over the issue of who made what, it just is a vital part of ordnance history and part of the hunt.