Stokes Mortar Bombs As Grenades?

[Matt W]

I read in a book on WW1 British infantry which stated that Mills Bombs used by "Moppers Up" clearing German trenches lacked the power to neutralise deep dug-oust. Eventually a combination of P (Phos) bombs and Stokes mortar bombs was used, the Stokes bombs being rolled down the dug out steps. Has anyone else heard this, and does it sound possible? Would the mortar bomb fuze have time to arm if it was a 146 fuze?

Thanks

[spotter]

i would have thought it was the ones that utilised the stokes pistol as shown on this one andysarmoury restored http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...ghlight=stokes

[TonyE]

Not only was it possible, but it was a regular practice.

See this picture of a Royal Fusiliers trench raiding party. as well as an assortment of interesting pistols, Colt 1903, Spanish O.P. etc, the chap at the front has a Stokes bomb for throwing into dugouts.

RTegartds
TonyE

[smle2009]

What a great photo TonyE,I wouldn't want to bump into anyone of them in a trench,or a mine?.
Do you have the original hard copy of this photo? just wondered is that a volley site still on that MKIII I can see?

Cheers
Tony

[TonyE]

No, unfortunarely I only have an electronic version but it is reasonably high resolution.

The right hand SMLE is a Mark III, but nothing unusual about that. I used the picture in my Part 3 on Land Service secondary weapons because it shows all of them with the Spanish Old Pattern pistols as I mentioned above. It is difficult to find pictures of these pistols in operational use, although we had 30 odd thousand of them. The Colt 1903 semi-auto was probably a private purchase, but issue ammunition was available for them in the system.

Regards
TonyE

[smle2009]

Thanks TonyE,
it was the volley site(dial sight) that I noticed,did take the liberty to 'blow up' the photo,so must have been a early MkIII.
Mind you I did recover a 1908 MkIII from bray dunes(part of the Dunkerque evacuations) on a neap tide years ago,odd to think it survived WW1 only to be lost in the beginning of WW2.

Tony

[Gspragge]

Canadian raiders used stokes bombs for clearing dug outs but it could be touchy as I have read of one being thrown back out .

[Jolly Green]

Bunch of bad looking dudes that look like enjoy their work. Glad they were on our side.

[spotter]

a little extra info here on the use of Stokes bombs during trench raids
this is taken from this Link about the 12th Royal Irish Rifles http://ballymenaww1.webs.com/12rirmayjune16.htm
JUNE 1916

The final preparations were being made for the Somme Offensive. Intelligence had to be gathered and troops prepared for the huge attack. It was a busy period for the 12th Royal Irish Rifles. The contents of the diary for this month are particularly interesting, detailing a large scale trench raid and the final hours before the whistles blew on July 1st.

June 1^st Martinsart : Marched out by coys. Leaving village at 10.30am Batt. Arrived in Tealvillers about 3.30pm. No stragglers. Situation normal. Weather fine.
June 2 Situation unchanged.
June 3 Corps. Commander, Lt. Gen. Morland, Maj. Gen. O. S. Nugent and Brig. General Griffiths attended raiding party practice. They were well pleased.
June 4 Situation unchanged. Weather showery and much colder.
June 5 Situation unchanged. Raiding Party left at 5.30pm. Arrived Martinsart 6.30. The following is a copy of the report of the raid and gives in detail the description of what took place:-

REPORT

The raiding parties were trained to move in couples to avoid straggling and possible cutting off of single men. Every NCO and man armed with a revolver was trained in its use and fired a course designed to meet all contingencies likely to be encountered. All men to carry Stokes shells were instructed in their use.
The pistol head of the Stokes shells as issued was found to be impossible for use when the shell was used as a hand grenade.
This difficulty was overcome by a slight alteration of the lever. This device was the outcome of experiments suggested by the officers of the party.
The party was exercised over ground and in trenches, great attention being paid to:-
(a) Accurate timing of arrival at various points.
(b) Reporting to the O.C. party when leaving enemy trench.

Valuable assistance was rendered to party by No. 1 and No. 3 companies ASC in altering levers for Stokes shell and making special reel of tape.
The party left training ground at 6pm June 5^th and arrived at Mesnil where faces and hands were blackened and explosives handed out.

[Matt W]

Thanks all! Excellent RIR link, will have to have a good look through that site