Unknown projectile

[armaments]

I bought this projectile years ago when I collected foreign stuff. All I can remember is that the person I bought it from told me it was a German WWI 88mm projectile. Pretty sure the German's didn't have any 88mm weapons in WWI. I also remember it wasn't cheap! No idea what it is though. Caliber is approximately 85 to 86mm.


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This projectile and case came together in the same box, but the projectile was not in the case. I don't know what the round is, or even if it is an incorrect projectile for the case........it does fit very tightly though so I do think 75mm is the proper caliber.

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Thanks,
Marshall

[HAZORD]

Well Marshall, the Germans did have at least one 88 in WWI, which became the common Submarine gun round in WWII. It took a shorter case. There has been a thread about it here over the last few days. The WWI projectiles were shorter like yours, whereas the WWII ones were the more streamlined longer versions that you see on other WWII 88's.

Your 75mm case would have a better chance getting identified if you post the length in millimeters, and the diameter of the case head. It looks like it has Israeli stamping on the side and head.

[MOLTKE]

Your furst case is a 8,8 Sprenggranate L/2,8 (Iz) for the 8,8cm SK L/30 - L/35.

[EOD]

And it is made by Krupp.

[blu97]

The 75 mm is a french AP projectile and was used on the AMX-13 tank which was also in use in Israel so there is a good change that case belongs to the projo.

[Vasco Da Gama]

20120124-Izzy 015.jpg20120124-Izzy 014.jpg20120124-Izzy 013.jpgI have had this French AP projectile for some time. I would be interested in any views as to if the projectile is correct. I have a feeling that it is a projectile that has lost its CAP and ballistic wind shield. However, it could also be a basic AP round for practise use? Glad to have the teams views.

[kz11gr]

This projectile and case came together in the same box, but the projectile was not in the case. I don't know what the round is, or even if it is an incorrect projectile for the case........it does fit very tightly though so I do think 75mm is the proper caliber.

P1120617.jpgP1120620.jpgP1120627.jpgP1120631.jpg

Thanks,
Marshall

Hi Marschall

You have the answer for the 88mm shell.
The second shell is also interesting and uncommon : CN 75-50

French shell, but with an history , because of great help during the liberation war of Israel
against the muslim troops heavily armed with soviet tanks.

This powerful shell was able (and has) to destroy any soviet tank of the
battlefield . Largely inspided from the german WW2 anti tank ammunitions .
The shell and your case go together, no doubt. Your case is more uncommon, because it wears the israel stamps.

Mounted on the "Super sherman"

here some explications
(origin : http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index....s/page__st__20)

============
.........
M4A4-AMX-13-latrun

In 1953, an Israeli delegation visited France to examine the new AMX 13 light tank. The tank was armed with the high-velocity 75 mm gun CN 75-50, a development of the German7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70(used in the Panther tank). While the gun was satisfactory, the armor of the French tank was considered too light. Eventually, Israel did purchase the AMX 13, however in a parallel development it was decided to graft the powerful French gun onto the available, familiar and better-armored hull of the American M4 Sherman, the standard tank of the IDF armored units in the early 1950s.

The project started in 1954, and in 1955 a prototype turret was sent from France to Israel. In March 1956 Israeli Ordnance Corps facilities started to convert tanks, using guns received from France. The gun was known in Israel as the M-50 and as a result the upgunned Sherman was designated Sherman M-50. The M-50 was similar to the Sherman Firefly in that it had the original turret of the "old" type (as used by the 75 mm gun M3 armed Shermans), which was fitted with a large counterweight at the rear end.

French AMX 13



Israel modified Sherman + AMX 13 turret


==========
origin : http://www.ww2f.com/weapons-technolo...-vehicles.html

"After 1945, fifty Panther tanks were used by French 503e Régiment de Chars de Combat stationed in Mourmelon le Grand. Before the end of 1950, the Panther tanks had been replaced by French-built ARL 44 heavy tanks. The Panther influenced the design of the French AMX 50, which was never produced. After the war, a modified 75mm KwK 42 L/70 gun was produced by the French as the 75mm DEFA and CN75-50 gun. This gun equipped the AMX 13 light tank and EBR armored car. The Israelis used the gun to upgrade their M50 Super Sherman."


================================

[kz11gr]

From : http://servir-et-defendre.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=233

Perforation of the PCOT shell 75 mm (V0 1.000 m/s)





===

[Tony Williams]

In 1953, an Israeli delegation visited France to examine the new AMX 13 light tank. The tank was armed with the high-velocity 75 mm gun CN 75-50, a development of the German7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70(used in the Panther tank).

This link between the French 75mm gun and the 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70 has always puzzled me. The cartridge cases are different, and the French gun is an autoloader rather than manually loaded, so what exactly does it owe to the German gun?

[armaments]

Thank you very much for the information kz11gr!

Hi Marschall

You have the answer for the 88mm shell.
The second shell is also interesting and uncommon : CN 75-50

French shell, but with an history , because of great help during the liberation war of Israel
against the muslim troops heavily armed with soviet tanks.

This powerful shell was able (and has) to destroy any soviet tank of the
battlefield . Largely inspided from the german WW2 anti tank ammunitions .
The shell and your case go together, no doubt. Your case is more uncommon, because it wears the israel stamps.

Mounted on the "Super sherman"

here some explications
(origin : http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index....s/page__st__20)

============
.........
M4A4-AMX-13-latrun

In 1953, an Israeli delegation visited France to examine the new AMX 13 light tank. The tank was armed with the high-velocity 75 mm gun CN 75-50, a development of the German7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70(used in the Panther tank). While the gun was satisfactory, the armor of the French tank was considered too light. Eventually, Israel did purchase the AMX 13, however in a parallel development it was decided to graft the powerful French gun onto the available, familiar and better-armored hull of the American M4 Sherman, the standard tank of the IDF armored units in the early 1950s.

The project started in 1954, and in 1955 a prototype turret was sent from France to Israel. In March 1956 Israeli Ordnance Corps facilities started to convert tanks, using guns received from France. The gun was known in Israel as the M-50 and as a result the upgunned Sherman was designated Sherman M-50. The M-50 was similar to the Sherman Firefly in that it had the original turret of the "old" type (as used by the 75 mm gun M3 armed Shermans), which was fitted with a large counterweight at the rear e

==========
origin : http://www.ww2f.com/weapons-technolo...-vehicles.html

"After 1945, fifty Panther tanks were used by French 503e Régiment de Chars de Combat stationed in Mourmelon le Grand. Before the end of 1950, the Panther tanks had been replaced by French-built ARL 44 heavy tanks. The Panther influenced the design of the French AMX 50, which was never produced. After the war, a modified 75mm KwK 42 L/70 gun was produced by the French as the 75mm DEFA and CN75-50 gun. This gun equipped the AMX 13 light tank and EBR armored car. The Israelis used the gun to upgrade their M50 Super Sherman."


================================