M18 75mm AP shot M72 with tracer

**ken68** · 26th January 2012, 03:17 PM

Hi all i have a 75mm M18 shell case M189A4 GUN , the projectile is british and a AP with tracer shot M72 ? i have a data sheet and all adds up just not the colors (black white stencils 75 G SHOT AP WITH TRACER ?)?
lenght of complete round 20.81 in
lenght of projectile 9.21 in
lenght of shell case 13.82 in
width of drive band 0.49 in
boat tailed
all the above are correct for my projectile and shell case . does anyone else have this in there collection and would mind sharing some info

cheers ken
,

**HAZORD** · 26th January 2012, 03:37 PM

If the projectile is labeled M72, it is U.S. Are there any things stamped into the metal on the projectile body? If it is broadarrow marked it is UK and would not be designated M72.

**ken68** · 26th January 2012, 03:46 PM

Hi the body i think has had some filler and repainted but the drive band is marked with the british arrow and a number 477 , i think britain did make ammo for these early sherman tanks gun , the projectile has got the exact same spec as the M72 thats why i am a bit confused , they were a bit under power penetration wise and herd alot were used for practice ?

**HAZORD** · 26th January 2012, 03:59 PM

You are correct that the AP-T projo is less effective than the AP-capped M61 HE projectile. Less mass, no cap to take the shock, and no explosive charge. Your projo is most likely UK manufacture. The U.S. didn't stamp rotating bands on 75mm projos. What does the the base look like, where the hole for the tracer would be?

**ken68** · 26th January 2012, 05:01 PM

Yes it has a tracer cavity heres the pics of the broadarrow and number / any idea what the little emblem
is on the shell case looks like a cannon with a flame ?
cheers ken

**HAZORD** · 26th January 2012, 10:28 PM

Your brass case is U.S. made. The crossed cannons is the standard U.S. Ordnance marking that was used at that time.

**ken68** · 26th January 2012, 10:44 PM

one of the researchers for the ASL system. M72 AP was solid uncapped shot designed for use against homogeneous armour. By the time it was in service with the British in the M3 the Germans were using face-hardened armour against which the M72 often shattered, like the 40mm 2-ponder AP shot. Theoretically the round was APHE but at the time the USA had no suitable fuze for it. The British therefore simply filled the cavity with inert material to boost AP performance, and did so even after a fuze appeared because the first batches at least were very unreliable. M61 was, as stated, APCBC designed for use against face-hardened armour which was still in use on some parts of German tanks, especially the cats. The US army considered developing an APCR round for their 75mm but the performance increase would have been marginal and really a waste of precious tungsten. If they ever seriously considered it (doubtful) I suspect that the British felt the same way about attempting to develop an APDS round for their 75mm as factories were at full capacity producing 6-pounder and 17-pounder APDS. Moreover, as stated already, I doubt whether the guns would have withstood the chamber pressures of more propellant behind the projectile. APDS is of course also hazardous to friendly personnel. The British and US 75mm guns werre really designed for HE and WP.

Incidentally the US army was given 6-pounder APDS for their 57mm gun by Britain but due to the scarcity of targets only about 180 rounds were ever used in Italy, and something over 11,000 in NW Europe.

**ken68** · 26th January 2012, 11:10 PM

Searches i have found also relate to the British MK V gun firing M72 AP shot and the M4 gun churchill and sherman tanks both shells could be used in the gun also american and british made projectiles were compatible

Cheers ken

**HAZORD** · 27th January 2012, 12:58 AM

Pretty much the real winner in the whole combination was the British 17Pdr firing APDS. The standard 75mm in the Sherman was like a flyswatter to the Tigers and Panthers.

**ken68** · 27th January 2012, 09:02 AM

Our early AP shot wouldnt have looked out of place in WW1 , when they realised the german armour would shatter or deflect a standard AP shot , looking for the sweet spot on a german panzer in the heat of battle was not an option , leading to the development of more powerful armour piercing projectiles capped APDS etc i seen a picture of a sherman being loaded with M72 AP T shot and M48 HE M18 shell cases , when you look at the UK, s anti tank roll now from the L11 120mm gun not all history repeats its self . In the gulf we were the tigers this time !!!!