M24 stick grenade. Original?

[EOD]

A theoretical and less important question is that were these few "allowed" companies main contractors to the Army and subcontracted from the other companies, or did each company supply direct to the Army. At least each small company seems to have had it's own WaA-inspector.
.

Nice to see the seed growing.
Judging by the correspondence between the Heereswaffenamt and other military installations and manufacturers I have seen it was always direct contact to the manufacturers. So, to stick with examples, Polte did not manage the contracts, payment or deliveries of lets say P28 (DWM in Karlsruhe). So the designated "head companies" were not related to administration of the other ones in this business.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Seems the old plan of confusing outside observers is still working​.

Absolutely..... The Germans old plan of deception to confuse outsiders during their re-armament in the inter-war years is still working very well....in fact too well

Thanks very much EOD (whatever your name might be?) for taking the time explain more in detail about this interesting subject of RR marked German ordnance. By the way, I never was laughing as it seems you thought I was, my apology if you feel you were insulted by what I thought was a bit of lighthearted humor... I've actually been humbled by this thread. It's been very enlightening.

Your first correction/statement to me, short, and just saying "Mainly because this is no Richard Rinker logo" I did not think was correct because my mind was brainwashed over a period of time by many other collectors thinking and/or saying that the numbers following an RR marking were a sub-contractor or RR subsidiary factory number.....which I now understand is not true
.
Then you're next post about P and P+ numbers Polte cartridges being the same as RR and RR+ numbers up until 1940 etc. I really did not understand what you were trying to explain to me..... until it all came into focus with your last post because you expanded the discussion and gave more information that mentioned and reminded me of the Germans old plan of confusion and hiding the actual amount of ordnance, guns, weapons manufacturers, and now I understand exactly what you meant, and what the real truth is now.

So then correctly now.... it's only items with just an RR + "date only", and RRE, RRK, RRO, RRM, lwv, brb, and dbk are true Richard Rinker Co. manufactured items....is this correct???

It would be nice now to maybe find out more about the reversed R's.....when, why...who etc....

​

 

[EOD]

Steve, we shall have a beer together if we ever meet and laugh together!

Yes, right what you say about RR + date. Also as you say it is a good thing to observe all markings and maybe keep records including on the years and particular items they have shown up. This might be a way to figure what factory made what and in which time frame. (as I do with Russia and WAPA/CHICOM).

As for the letter codes: Here I am the one listening what others will have to say about. I only can follow the code books and quote them. Means here I would not tell anything already known.

As for these: RRE, RRK, RRO, RRM
Have these been observed with a year in addition? If not it might be (we need to check then) if the letters E, K, O and M are year codes which have been used in the 1930's. I put that book back to the basement and have to digg it again to see if all letters here would fit that system. Will look it up at the weekend.

A tiny bit of info - maybe of interest. Richard Rinker was (is) producing all sort of engineer fuzes (pull, pressure, tilt etc.) for the Bundeswehr and other armies. Here they use(d) the NATO code "RM". In the 1970's they were bought by another large company which is strongly covering it's relation to defense business. Unfortunately I have no details on the code they are using today. Maybe still "RM" or a new one. Anybody knows?

Alex

 

[Tmine35]

About reversed R's - just a few examples in my collection. The following codes have first R reversed:
-RR 470 37, RR 470 38

-RR 401 40

-RR 495 38
These codes are all in safety fuze igniters ZDSCHN ANZ 29. R-font is just normal - not rounded slim like in Rinker's RR. Oldest Rinker's marking in my collection is RR36 and last RR40

 

[Defender]

...
As for these: RRE, RRK, RRO, RRM
Have these been observed with a year in addition? If not it might be (we need to check then) if the letters E, K, O and M are year codes which have been used in the 1930's.
...

Moin Alex, no need to dig in the basement again.

From official documents (included in the recommended book):
E = 1931
K = 1934
O = 1932
M = 1927

Next time meeting having a beer? :tinysmile_twink_t2:

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Steve, we shall have a beer together if we ever meet and laugh together!

Yes, right what you say about RR + date. Also as you say it is a good thing to observe all markings and maybe keep records including on the years and particular items they have shown up. This might be a way to figure what factory made what and in which time frame. (as I do with Russia and WAPA/CHICOM).

As for the letter codes: Here I am the one listening what others will have to say about. I only can follow the code books and quote them. Means here I would not tell anything already known.

As for these: RRE, RRK, RRO, RRM
Have these been observed with a year in addition? If not it might be (we need to check then) if the letters E, K, O and M are year codes which have been used in the 1930's. I put that book back to the basement and have to digg it again to see if all letters here would fit that system. Will look it up at the weekend.

A tiny bit of info - maybe of interest. Richard Rinker was (is) producing all sort of engineer fuzes (pull, pressure, tilt etc.) for the Bundeswehr and other armies. Here they use(d) the NATO code "RM". In the 1970's they were bought by another large company which is strongly covering it's relation to defense business. Unfortunately I have no details on the code they are using today. Maybe still "RM" or a new one. Anybody knows?

Alex

Ja Alex, vielleicht ein Bier und ein gutes Lachen. :cheers: I stopped drinking 5 years ago, but a few cold ones would still taste good.....

As for these: RRE, RRK, RRO, RRM Have these been observed with a year in addition?
I do not know if these have been seen with a year Alex, these letter codes are the ones I saw in Peter's list I included in my post #10....maybe someone will be able to answer this.....If serious research of this Richard Rinker codes subject will be started, I would agree with Peter that "Perhaps we should start a special RR-thread to concentrate all knowledge and meanings to one point?"



Tomek....if you are reading this thread still, I would imagine you never would think your post of that interesting fake M24 would become this complex of a discussion about Richard Rinker :laugh:

About reversed R's - just a few examples in my collection. The following codes have first R reversed:-RR 470 37, RR 470 38

-RR 401 40

-RR 495 38
These codes are all in safety fuze igniters ZDSCHN ANZ 29. R-font is just normal - not rounded slim like in Rinker's RR. Oldest Rinker's marking in my collection is RR36 and last RR40

Reino, here is a few examples of reversed first "R"'s to add from my collection

two ZZ-35's marked RR-985-40 & RR 344-40

two S.Mi.35 RR 344-40 & RR 482 1938 ​

 

[EOD]

Steve, maybe a point to start with is to see if there are "RR+number" and "reversed RR+number" which actually do use the same number (representing the same factoy then), then compare the years they been used and see if you find a point when (if so) they stopped using the "reversed RR" in favour of the "RR".
This then can be expanded to other "numbers" and figured when other manufacturers switched the RR styles.

 

[sudelmuk]

Well, "Nice to see the seed growing" someone has recently written here, that's true .
Two little questions are still unanswered.

1.) letter-codes for the manufacture year were used between 1925 - 1936, RRM stands for 1927.

But what about markings like RRM 1936, RRM 113-36, RRM 343-40 & RRM 401 36 ?

2.) there are several fuses and boxes marked with a slim curved reversed RR without any other letters and digits.
first I thought this being a mood of the Rinker GmbH to give their own products a personal note in the huge forest of other RR-markings.

But these special characters have also turned up on a ZZ 35-label RR 470 1940 for example ?


PS. Sorry Tomek for denaturing your original thread.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Well, "Nice to see the seed growing" someone has recently written here, that's true View attachment 63781.
Two little questions are still unanswered.

1.) letter-codes for the manufacture year were used between 1925 - 1936, RRM stands for 1927.

But what about markings like RRM 1936, RRM 113-36, RRM 343-40 & RRM 401 36 ?

2.) there are several fuses and boxes marked with a slim curved reversed RR without any other letters and digits.
first I thought this being a mood of the Rinker GmbH to give their own products a personal note in the huge forest of other RR-markings.

But these special characters have also turned up on a ZZ 35-label RR 470 1940 for example ?


PS. Sorry Tomek for denaturing your original thread.

I think Tomek is probably.... :laugh: :laugh: after all, he did get the answer he needed.....

"a personal note in the huge forest of other RR-markings" ....Well said Professor Peter....a HUGE forest indeed!!! and these two little questions are quite good ones....:tinysmile_hmm_t:

Steve, maybe a point to start with is to see if there are "RR+number" and "reversed RR+number" which actually do use the same number (representing the same factoy then), then compare the years they been used and see if you find a point when (if so) they stopped using the "reversed RR" in favour of the "RR".
This then can be expanded to other "numbers" and figured when other manufacturers switched the RR styles.

Very interesting idea Alex....but I think I will have to leave this complex task to the true experts at this time.....I have too many very important personal family issues to deal with in the nearer future....
I think if I don't hear the words Richard Rinker, or see another RR again for a while....I will be.....:marchmellow: a happy dancing marshmellow fellow...

 

[Tmine35]

When studying reversed and non-reversed RR's also keep an eye on the WaA-numbers. If they are different then most likely it can't be the same factory. As example I just noted 2 different S.Mi.Z.35 box labels marked ( reversed ) RR 551 and RR 564 with same city in both; Iserlohn - but different WaA-numbers. Yes, these both makers are known and not the same, but for other notes...

 

[jeeeensy]

When studying reversed and non-reversed RR's also keep an eye on the WaA-numbers. If they are different then most likely it can't be the same factory. As example I just noted 2 different S.Mi.Z.35 box labels marked ( reversed ) RR 551 and RR 564 with same city in both; Iserlohn - but different WaA-numbers. Yes, these both makers are known and not the same, but for other notes...

HI..

I'm sure we all have a fair few RR-xx-xxx's between us,,so why not put spreadsheet together and all input what we have collectivly,,keep it to M24 to make it simple though.

just an idea,,,

Regards Nick