107mm Russian ammo: mortar or RCL?

[Tony Williams]

I have an interesting puzzle for you. I have been researching the old Soviet M38 and M107 107mm mortars, and trying to find something about their ammo. All I have is that they made light and heavy HE bombs, weighing 7.9 and 9.0 kg. Much googling brought up two different bombs identified on several sites as being for this mortar: the BK-883 HEAT-T (strange, for a mortar!) and OF-883 HE-FRAG.

HOWEVER - this site makes it clear that despite looking exactly like mortar bombs, these were not for a mortar at all, but for the 107mm B-11 recoilless rifle! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-11_recoilless_rifle

So - was the OF-883 used in a mortar as well as the RCL, or did the mortars use something entirely different - if the latter, does anyone have any info or pics?

 

[weberoed]

I can't find any reference to a 107mm mortar in soviet use, not that there may not be one - but all the nomenclatures you give all go to the 107 recoilless. I do not see how they could be used in both weapons

 

[HAZORD]

As I remember, the Recoilless projectiles look like a mortar, except there is a ring around the fins.

 

[Ivashkin]

It will help you
If you need cutway I`ll give and it.

 

[peteblight]

We have a photograph at work of a Russian 107mm mortar designation KhM - 107 - (32) 35 filled with the chemical warfare agents, Mustard, Lewisite, Phosgene and Hydrogen Cyanide.

Pete

 

[US-Subs]

So - was the OF-883 used in a mortar as well as the RCL, or did the mortars use something entirely different - if the latter, does anyone have any info or pics?

Completely different weapons with completely different ammunition. Recoilless on the left, HE mortar center, chemical / smoke mortar on the right.

 

[EOD]

Jeff your 107mm chemical is the "smoke only" as the other 2 types (persistent and non persistent) had other tail sections (for night ID I guess). Scarce items anyways!

The 107mm caliber was a wide spread caliber which originated in Czarist Russia since their measurement system was bound to inches. 107mm are 4.2 inch (remember the US mortar). The Russians also had plenty of artillery guns in this caliber.
Here the chemical ones, note the tails:

 

[EOD]

Here the regular M1938 mountain mortar ammunition, note the different tail section of the HE types in comparison to the one in the photo:

HE

Practice:

 

[stecol]

This is the nomenclature of some 107 mm mortar bombs:

53-ПУ-841 107-мм Target Pratice Bomb (steel)
53-С-841 107-мм Illuminating Bomb
53-Д-841 107-мм Smoke Bomb (steel)
53-Д-841А 107-мм Smoke Bomb (steel cast iron)
53-ОФ-841 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel pipes), (High Capacity)
53-ОФ-841А 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel cast iron)
53-ОФ-841АУ 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel cast iron, stabilizer improved design)
53-ОФ-841Т 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel, thin walls)
53-ОФ-841У 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel, stabilizer improved design)
53-ОФ-841Ц(Щ?) 107-мм HE/Frag Bomb (steel)

Regards
stecol

 

[Tony Williams]

Excellent stuff gentlemen, I knew you'd come up with the goods! :tinysmile_classes_t Thanks very much, that helps a lot!

Does anyone still use the M38 or M107 mortars, or are they obsolete?

Does anyone have any data on the different mortar rounds listed above? Length, weight, filling type/weight, number of propellant charges, min/max range, muzzle velocities? All I have at the moment is a "heavy" bomb of 9 kg fired at 302 m/s for a range of 5,150m and a "light" bomb of 7.9 kg fired at 267 m/s for a range of 6,300m (which doesn't make sense - I suspect that someone got the muzzle velocities the wrong way round).

 

[Ivashkin]

Excellent stuff gentlemen, I knew you'd come up with the goods! :tinysmile_classes_t Thanks very much, that helps a lot!

Does anyone still use the M38 or M107 mortars, or are they obsolete?

Does anyone have any data on the different mortar rounds listed above? Length, weight, filling type/weight, number of propellant charges, min/max range, muzzle velocities? All I have at the moment is a "heavy" bomb of 9 kg fired at 302 m/s for a range of 5,150m and a "light" bomb of 7.9 kg fired at 267 m/s for a range of 6,300m (which doesn't make sense - I suspect that someone got the muzzle velocities the wrong way round).

Mortar M1938 very rare and if you fined mine for him you`re very licky :tinysmile_twink_t2: This mortar was only for mountain infantry and was produced really a little quanity on this mortar. And I think now you can fined M1938 only in museum.
In manual for M1938 characteristics only for HE mine:
range of shooting:
max (powder charge № 3) - 5000 m
min - 800 m
mass of the mines:
53-ОФ-841 - 7,99 kg
53-ОФ-841А - 9,04 kg
mass of the explosive:
53-ОФ-841 - 2,10 kg
53-ОФ-841А - 1,989 kg
Interesting things with maximum range of shooting in this - mines has 4 different charges, but mine 53-ОФ-841 cam be use maximum with charge № 3. And that`s why in some books you can see maximum range of shooting 6300 m (but in oficial manual only 5000 m), maybe it`s for mine 53-ОФ-841A because it can use and charge № 4.

About mines 53-С-841, 53-Д-841 and 53-Д-841А I haven`t found any characteristics. Maybe they were created, but didn`t use in Army and didn`t put in Manual.

 

[Tony Williams]

Thanks Ivashkin!