ID request: possible Japanese 30KG bomb (or perhaps US or Korean?)

[ogreve]

Hi,

Spotted in Japan is the bomb that's shown in the attached images. It is obtainable, but will cost an arm and a leg. If it's really 30KG, as the seller writes, international shipping by sea mail alone will be around 150 Euros.
So... as you'll understand, I want to be pretty darn sure it's really a Japanese bomb, and not a post-WW2 one at that.

The given description mentions it to be a Navy 30KG bomb, allegedly brought back by a 'Navyman' (no mention of him being Japanese or US) after having been 'processed' by the US military after the end of WW2. I see no discernible markings stamped into the body and I can't find this kind of bomb in OpNav 1667 (i.e. TM-1985-4/5) nor in its predecessor, OpNav 30-3M. Overall spoken the construction looks very different from WW2 era Japanese bombs; with this one being of a single piece body construction, rather than composite of a tail, body and nose section.

I'd be inclined to think it's post-WW2 and/or US. However, should it turn out to be Japanese, pre-1946, I'll be kicking myself if I'd let it go by... I hope someone can give me an 'ID', or if not, just an 'idea', of what it is...:P

Here are the 'cons' for it being WW2 Japanese:

-I can't find it in OpNav 1667 (i.e. TM-1985-4/5 together), whereas I do find the IJA 15KG and 30KG bombs, but those are of very different design.
-OpNav 1667 mentions ALL IJA bombs have a horizontal suspension lug (with exception of bomblets). The 15KG one has a similar additional tail hook, but should also have a horizontal one. I do notice a picture where a spot on the side is shown that might have held a four-riveted horizontal suspension lug though.
-The overall design 'worries' me somewhat, it looks much more slender, and of single piece construction than what typical Japanese bombs look like.
-I see no fuze thread in the mouth.
-I don't see any pictures with clear markings. Do you know if Japanese bombs had markings stamped into them, or were they only painted on them? I would have expected arsenal and manufacture stampings in the metal.

But, on the other hand, here are the 'pros':

-The tail struts look like what I'd expect on a Japanese WW2 era bomb.
-It's in Japan; most likely that doesn't leave many other candidates other than being _a_ Japanese bomb (which era, is an entirely different matter, of course).
-A befriended collector wrote that he has one of the 15KG bombs. I have found it in OpNav 1667 but it doesn't show the tail hook very clearly. Especially that part would be good to see. I have asked him for additional pictures.

If it's not WW2 era Japanese, it's an order magnitude less likely to appear in OpNav 1667, as with only very few exceptions that's purely Showa era stuff.

Some other candidate options might then be:
-US bomb (WW2 or later)
-Japanese pre-WW2 bomb
-Japanese post-WW2 bomb
-Something from Korea (an option that was mentioned to me)

I really hope someone can give an ID....

Cheers,
Olafo

PS: The composite picture is heavily down-scaled here by the forum software; should you require a tall version of it, I can e-mail it. Please send me an e-mail at: ogreve (at) japaneseammunition (dot) com then, and I'll send it.


unknown_30KG_bomb_possibly_Japanese_1.jpgunknown_30KG_bomb_possibly_Japanese_2.jpgunknown_30KG_bomb_possibly_Japanese_3.jpgunknown_30KG_bomb_possibly_Japanese_4.jpg

[reccetrooper]

ogreve

I don't know what it is, and all my Japanese ordnance references are not accessible at the moment, however I looked at the place where it is being sold and I think 1) a suspension lug has been removed, and 2) near the suspension lug I think the body is stamped with the kanji dai character. I lifted and cropped the sale photo. What do you think?


enlarged 250%

[Slick]

Olafo

GET IT! Hurry up!!!! Money's no object! :-)

Rick

[US-Subs]

I'm pretty certain that it is Japanese. There were a number of early designs that were generally without model numbers, just designated as 15kg streamlined, etc. They only show up in a couple of references and are difficult to identify. I've never seen this one, but it is typical of the series.

[ogreve]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your answers!
This is starting to look very interesting indeed; I will have my middleman go for it. If I manage to score it, it will be expensive, but hey, one doesn't see Japanese bombs for sale all that often.

Cheers,
Olafo

[reccetrooper]

Olafo, what happened with this ?
I just looked at my saved link and it is now listed as 'buy it now' for 80000JPY ? I thought it was listed as an auction, with a much lower price. ?

[ogreve]

Hi,

I had my middleman bid on it but it went higher than my max. For me the mere commission and shipping overhead for this item is around 200 euros. The auction was at something like 40,500 yen when the seller cancelled it and relisted it at the far higher amount. It is, unfortunately, well out of my league.

Cheers,
Olafo

[reccetrooper]

Hi,

I had my middleman bid on it but it went higher than my max. For me the mere commission and shipping overhead for this item is around 200 euros. The auction was at something like 40,500 yen when the seller cancelled it and relisted it at the far higher amount. It is, unfortunately, well out of my league.

Cheers,
Olafo

Sorry to hear that. I've had similar experiences on items that have gone far higher than I could afford, but I've never had a seller cancel and relist at a higher price.

[ogreve]

Hi,

This time the item was already beyond my reach when it happened, but it's a most annoying trick. A while ago I _twice_ won a rare Chinese 75x185R casing (pre-WW2, pre-Mukden) and twice we got screwed over. The most outrageous time was after the auction had ended, the seller somehow still managed to work his way out of actually selling it.
Anyway, it goes with the territory, I guess :/

Cheers,
Olafo