Hello everybody, I guess this is an unusual subject but I thought I'd ask a few questions anyway :tinysmile_twink_t2:
As you may already know, the Italian Breda 20mm gun (Cannone mitragliera da 20 mm mod.1935) fired the Rheinmetall/Solothurn 20x138 round, the same as the German FlaK 30 & 38 guns and the Solothurn A/T rifle.
Many Breda guns were captured by the British, in several instances during the figthing North Africa, starting in December 1940. It seems the gun was much appreciated, and most if not all were re-used by the British. For sure the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) and the Australians used several truck-mounted captured guns of this type.
It is unclear how the troops were able to resupply with ammo, as the only source was capture of enemy supplies. Granted, a lot of ammo and guns were captured during the successful British operations, and that kind of ammo was used both by the Italians and the Germans, "doubling" the opportunities to capture some, but it seems to me hard to believe they could always get their hands on enough ammo to satisfy the needs of all the captured guns.
In particular, from 1942 the LRDG had several "Breda gun trucks", one per patrol, but no mention is ever made on ammo resupply. Note that the guns were fitted upon official orders, which should mean that resupply was not a problem, otherwise the higher Command would not have issued such an order in my opinion. Furthermore, at least one veteran remembered the RAF supplying them with belted ammo from their aircraft guns. This, though, could refer to the .303" ammo for the Vickers guns the LRDG used, where the rounds had to be un-belted and inserted into the ammo drums.
Most surprisingly, there is a picture of one of the LRDG Breda gun trucks with a trooper holding belted ammo, with several spare belts hanging on the truck back and some spare rounds scattered around as if the trooper was unbelting rounds and preparing them to be loaded in the Breda clips. The ammo is clearly too big to be .303" and, as the RAF in North Africa only had Hispano 20mm guns, those must be belts of 20mm Hispano HS404 rounds. The problem is that the Hispano and Rheinmetall cartridges are very different in size and shape; furthermore, the section drawings of the chamber of the Breda gun from the original documentation seem to confirm there is no way the HS404 round could seat correctly, there being too much headspace and other "mismatches", though all the dimensions are equal or smaller than the Rheinmetall round, which could mean that at least the round could be extracted from the clip and chambered.
Short of trying to fire an HS404 round in a Breda :tinysmile_grin_t: which is most likely impossible, I am wondering if anybody here on the forum has ever stumbled upon any information from the British side of any testing or use of different ammunition on the captured Breda guns.
As you may already know, the Italian Breda 20mm gun (Cannone mitragliera da 20 mm mod.1935) fired the Rheinmetall/Solothurn 20x138 round, the same as the German FlaK 30 & 38 guns and the Solothurn A/T rifle.
Many Breda guns were captured by the British, in several instances during the figthing North Africa, starting in December 1940. It seems the gun was much appreciated, and most if not all were re-used by the British. For sure the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) and the Australians used several truck-mounted captured guns of this type.
It is unclear how the troops were able to resupply with ammo, as the only source was capture of enemy supplies. Granted, a lot of ammo and guns were captured during the successful British operations, and that kind of ammo was used both by the Italians and the Germans, "doubling" the opportunities to capture some, but it seems to me hard to believe they could always get their hands on enough ammo to satisfy the needs of all the captured guns.
In particular, from 1942 the LRDG had several "Breda gun trucks", one per patrol, but no mention is ever made on ammo resupply. Note that the guns were fitted upon official orders, which should mean that resupply was not a problem, otherwise the higher Command would not have issued such an order in my opinion. Furthermore, at least one veteran remembered the RAF supplying them with belted ammo from their aircraft guns. This, though, could refer to the .303" ammo for the Vickers guns the LRDG used, where the rounds had to be un-belted and inserted into the ammo drums.
Most surprisingly, there is a picture of one of the LRDG Breda gun trucks with a trooper holding belted ammo, with several spare belts hanging on the truck back and some spare rounds scattered around as if the trooper was unbelting rounds and preparing them to be loaded in the Breda clips. The ammo is clearly too big to be .303" and, as the RAF in North Africa only had Hispano 20mm guns, those must be belts of 20mm Hispano HS404 rounds. The problem is that the Hispano and Rheinmetall cartridges are very different in size and shape; furthermore, the section drawings of the chamber of the Breda gun from the original documentation seem to confirm there is no way the HS404 round could seat correctly, there being too much headspace and other "mismatches", though all the dimensions are equal or smaller than the Rheinmetall round, which could mean that at least the round could be extracted from the clip and chambered.
Short of trying to fire an HS404 round in a Breda :tinysmile_grin_t: which is most likely impossible, I am wondering if anybody here on the forum has ever stumbled upon any information from the British side of any testing or use of different ammunition on the captured Breda guns.
