Welcome to the Inert Ordnance Collectors.
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ontario / Canada
    Posts
    2,380
    Images
    43
    Thanks
    361
    Thanked 904 Times in 453 Posts

    12 Pr 12wht Question, semi fixed or separate loading ?

    This image shows a case and projectile being loaded as a single element, but another loader is holding just the case. Is the projectile rammed in separately which is not as shown or are the two put together as it seems here ? The case has a cap and if removed prior to loading then assembling the round prior to loading would be easy. Or is one just placed in front of the other and both pushed in at the same time. Can any one clarify this ?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    522
    Thanks
    431
    Thanked 194 Times in 101 Posts
    Good question and great photo! Wonder if the small dog is the Detachment Commander?

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,400
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 528 Times in 288 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkman View Post
    Wonder if the small dog is the Detachment Commander?
    Doubt it - can't see any rank badges.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    871
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
    The 12 Pr 12 cwt AA gun which was a conversion of the Coast Artillery gun is listed by Hogg in "British Artillery Weapons and Ammunition 1914-1918" as having fixed or separate loading QF cased ammunition. The case length differs Separate is 15.4" fixed is 16" long.

    After the end of the war in 1918 the AA guns were converted back to the coast defence role.

    Could this be a coast defence gun fitted to the trawler at the start of WW2 using what ever stocks of ammunition were available?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    West London, UK
    Posts
    2,032
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 181 Times in 154 Posts
    Does anyone have an example of a 12 Pr 12 CWT fixed case? If so, I would like to see a photo as I've never seen one.

    I presume this would have crimp marks like other fixed rounds as opposed to the tabs that the separate loading rounds have.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    871
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 210 Times in 150 Posts
    There is a picture on page 227 of the Hogg book.

    It has crimp marks and is slightly bottlenecked.

  7. #7
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ontario / Canada
    Posts
    2,380
    Images
    43
    Thanks
    361
    Thanked 904 Times in 453 Posts
    The straight case uses an alloy cap that fits the notches on these, does any one have one and what does it look like.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 157 Times in 68 Posts
    When I come across them they are packed in this way. I tought it was for packaging/transport. Is this it?

    foto (5).jpgfoto (4).jpg

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Michel For This Useful Post:

    Gspragge (14th May 2013)

  10. #9
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ontario / Canada
    Posts
    2,380
    Images
    43
    Thanks
    361
    Thanked 904 Times in 453 Posts
    I'm sure that is, it looks like it is a fair bit wider than the top of the case or is it just the image. If it clips on and is wider and covers the top & exterior of the case then it would have to be removed before loading and perhaps the projectile could be placed into the case, making it a semi-fixed round. Are there protrusions that fit into the notches on the top of the case ? It that a piece of wood attached to the cap ? I thought it was something that fit into the top and dissipated upon firing, but this certainly looks different.

    The ww1 image shows an internal cap, but by ww2 perhaps it was different, or there is an external cap removed before firing and an internal that stays in, which then seems to indicate separate loading in some fashion.

    Certainly the ww2 primer in mine is different than the ww1 version.

    A manual with the loading drill would answer the question ~
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Gspragge; 14th May 2013 at 10:31 PM.

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 157 Times in 68 Posts
    These are found like this in a copper transport case (the wood rotted away) primer/shell casing/cordite inside closed up with a (cotton?) patch extruding primer in a wooden base form and the top cover on the other side to prevent damage a it is for sure for the separate casing pic 1 No trace of a german haube type top like pic 2 this one must be removed. Pic 3 is only to let you see the drill version of the 12 pdr 12 cwt wood filled with a rod through bot sides of the casing.

    The transport cover normally fits thight but the top of the case is not perfect.

    12p4.jpg12p2.jpg12p3.jpg

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top