Austrian WW1 Howitzer cartridges

[Vasco Da Gama]

Austrian WW1 brass cases are not common in the UK so I would appreciate some help in confirming the identification of 2 brass cases found in a local junk shop this weekend. I don't think they are cut down but from a field howitzer, length of case 180mm, rim diameter 117mm and mouth approximately 106mm. I have an example of the case maker's monogram on a primer fitted to a case made in Berndorf; this is what leads me to conclude that these are Austrian made. For clarity case markings are: manufacturer large R with a small C inside, 1916, 5, 10.5cm. Primer: large S over a small M, 1917, 28, very glad to have your comments.

 

[highlandotter]

GR= George Roth, definitely Austrian

 

[Alpini]

Made in Austria, but most probably not used in Austria as the cases are missing their acceptance stamps, Arsenal marks, etc. And Austria had no 10,5 cm gun, they only had 10,0 cm howitzers and mountain howitzers and 10,4 cm guns. The naval guns also had a caliber of 10,0 cm.

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Many thanks Alpini
Having completed a search through my reference documents I can only find one possible candidate. Do you have the case size for the 10.5cm M14/T field howitzer? I understand that this gun was ordered from Austria by Turkey in 1913 but in the autumn of 1914, before Turkey entered the war, fifty guns were confiscated by Austria, and used in their own army. Could this be a case from this batch of confiscated guns? The dates would work with these cases being completed in 1916 with 1917 primers, very glad to have your opinion.

 

[Alpini]

as I wrote before, the M.14 howitzer was 10,0 cm and not 10,5 cm like your case and it had a shorter case

 

[Nabob]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but I think I have found some new info and maybe a case.
the dimensions of my specimen are:
length 178 mm
rim diameter: 116mm
Mouth is slightly deformed 105+ mm.

The book Die österreichisch-ungarische Artilerie von 1867 bis 1918 by M. Christian Ortner clearly states that 36 of 10,5 mm howitzers originaly made by Skoda for Turkey were kept by the K.u K. army.

Can someone translate the headstamp, please?

Attached is also photo of a grenadeschrapnel (not my unfortunately) that I believe to be used with the howitzer.
There is also a single time fuze ring that is exactly the same as on the cut, only with Arabic script.

Thanks, Bob.

 

[AKON_]

10,5cm FH M.14/T

 

[AKON_]

Amunition :
-10,5 cm M.14/T Brisanz.G.
-10,5 cm M.14/T Minen.G.
-10,5cm M.14/T Sch.
-10,5cm M.14/T Brisanz Sch.

 

[Nabob]

Thanks, any idea on the case?
Bob

 

[AKON_]

I have a production quoted drawing of the cartridge case with the same text (Persian), so it is possible to export to Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ... It is dated to 1927 and is 10.5 cm F.H L / 18 Skoda. Then I have another drawing quoted the same, but without the Persian text the Czech one is dated to 1927.
Akon.
PS Mám to naskenovat ?

 

[bdgreen]

AKON,

Is possible for you to post the descriptions - legends for the technical drawings you posted?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[AKON_]

bdgreen,
how do you contribute to the topic of ammunition 10.5 cm M.14 / T.
I suggest: You will find another 20 people who will ask for the same as you and I will take the job and copy the text to the drawings here.
Now only 19 people .... Try
Akon .

 

[AKON_]

Ballistic table
10,5cm ammo Skoda

Akon

 

[Hoeksel]

Not sure if it matters but in my reference this case (105x178R116) is documented as 10,5 cm Fd Hb M.15/T. It also exists as Austrian WW2 case.

 

[AKON_]

Not sure if it matters but in my reference this case (105x178R116) is documented as 10,5 cm Fd Hb M.15/T. It also exists as Austrian WW2 case.

Hi Hoeksel
What source of information do you use to determine the cartridge for the 10.5 cm Fd Hb M.15/T? manufacturer Škoda
I have given my source here and it is explicitly stated in the designation of the howitzer M.14/T, so not M.15/T
Akon

 

[Hoeksel]

Hi Hoeksel
What source of information do you use to determine the cartridge for the 10.5 cm Fd Hb M.15/T? manufacturer Škoda
I have given my source here and it is explicitly stated in the designation of the howitzer M.14/T, so not M.15/T
Akon

Not an official source, I take it from a list of a fellow collector so have not seen it myself. So it may very well be wrong, but I wanted to mention it.

 

[teller67]

Hi all, the symbol on the ballistic table (lion with sword and crown) owns to Persia.

 

[Hoeksel]

I am working on several translations of Farsi/Arabic/Ottoman shell cases including the one shown here. Do not pin me on anything, still in the works, and I need to test this on people that speak/write the language at play.

At 6-o-clock I am pretty confident this is "lot 4".
At 9-o-clock I suspect "Skoda" (phonetic).
At 12-o-clock I suspect "obus" or "obusier" followed by the caliber, in this case 10,5 cm. I was only able to guestimate "obus/obussier" when an Arabic speaking person tried to read this. Obus is French and often used for shell cases or rounds.

The Ottoman way for writing the caliber on items I also documented in my article (https://www.bocn.co.uk/threads/article-on-the-krupp-shell-case-drawing-numbering-system-v2-0.108785/). So based on the writing I would indeed say for Turkey (back than Ottoman empire).

 

[Hoeksel]

bdgreen,
how do you contribute to the topic of ammunition 10.5 cm M.14 / T.
I suggest: You will find another 20 people who will ask for the same as you and I will take the job and copy the text to the drawings here.
Now only 19 people .... Try
Akon .

AKON_, can you tell me what the meaning is of the T in M14/T?

 

[fert]

AKON_, can you tell me what the meaning is of the T in M14/T?

AH used this suffix for the guns’ origin.
T Turkische
R Russische
B belgische
Etc…