Question on 77x230mm German Marine shell

[jozefb2009]

Hello,

Can somebody tell me the meaning of the following markers on this 230mm by 77mm German Marine shell?

I would like to know the meaning of the markers in the pictures 398a, 398a2, 398a3.




Also does somebody know the meaning of the marker in picture Va.jpg which I saw on the picture of another shell on the Internet.



Thanks,
Jf

 

[Hoeksel]

Why do you think this is marine? It is for the inter-war FK96 n/A (77x230) and FK16 n/A (75x200). I think many are export cases although many are found in Germany as well.

 

[Alpini]

@Hoeksel: Is there any proof that this headstamp is german at all? When I see these headstamps I think these are german WW1 cases with their original headstamps removed on a lathe and afterward restamped. But I always wonder about the nationality of the new headstamps as they don't have any small similarity to earlier and later german headstamps. None of the small stamps can be found on german WW1 cases and also not on later cases. And the headstamp is very crooked which is really unusual for german cases I think.

 

[Hoeksel]

@Alpini: I have these cases with and without WaA. So yes, they are German.

 

[Alpini]

Ok, but is it a real proof? I think you have seen french, dutch, russian and many more cases with WaA stamps too. Do you have more pictures of such headstamps?

 

[Hoeksel]

Hi Alpini, you are right and I have no real proof like a manual. There was a discussion on these cases on the Dutch NVBMB site. A very knowledgeable collector mentioned these cases are found on German proving grounds (both the 77x230 and the 75x200). Officially only POLTE was allowed in 1920 to make large caliber ammunition. I have cases clearly marked POLTE and cases with the stamps of this thread. The cases I have seen are all 1924 and 1925. I have 77x230 and the adapted 75x200 made from these 77x230. The adapted case is 6343a. I think these cases are all made in Germany, where the POLTE cases are for German use (and maybe export) and that the cases with strange marks are German made export cases. My suspect country is Spain. I also have a 75x200 case with a "R" and an adjusted primer. I will show some pictures of cases I own and some cases shown in the Dutch thread (owned by collectors I know).

 

[Alpini]

really nice headstamps, especially the one marked with 6343a is interesting and something like a proove because of it's Reichswehr WaA stamp. It couldn't be captured ammunition at this time, so it must be german.

Do these 77x230 cases have crimp grooves? Normally they shouldn't...

 

[Hoeksel]

Yes, they have crimps comparable to WW1 cases. The 75x200 do not have crimps.

 

[Hoeksel]

Old thread, but just checking if somebody found new information on these cases? After so many years and finding a few more (both 77x230 and cut down to 75x200) I strongly believe in a Spanish-Polish background.

1 - most of these cases I found in Spain
2 - Spain got 77x230 FK96 ammunition from Poland (based on official Spanish manual and the fact I also found Polish marked 77x230 in Spain: cases are normal German WW1 but reconditioned in Poland with typical Polish star and Polish ink, depicted as such in Spanish manual). I know that these Polish 77x230 or the cases discussed here are impossible to find in Poland.
3 - I always thought the head stamp looks "weird" and Germans do not do (this) weird ;-).

What if these cases are Polish made for export to Spain?

 

[Hoeksel]

A collector friend send me these 2 recently found 77x230, both found in Spain with Polish ink and 1 case has a Polish primer (I assume).