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  1. #1
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    Were AA guns ever mounted on Aircraft for AA?

    As there were so many special projects during WWII, I was wondering if there had been any trials or plans drawn up to mount ground based Anti-Aircraft guns in to Aircraft for Anti-Aircraft use. I would think that something like a Flak 37 or QF 2 pounder MKVIII or even a 40 mm Bofors mounted in the Bomb bay of a Bomber that could be Traversed down would be a great weapon. The Aircraft could fly above and behind the Enemy Bombers out of their gun range at the same speed and the gunner could fly the plane via the gunsite like a bomb aimer. Fighters would be there for the Defence of these Aircraft and to finish off any damaged planes. I would think that one or two high Explosive hits to the fuel tanks in the wings would destroy an Aircraft, and a well trained team would only take five or six shots to Accomplish this. Four or five Aircraft would Decimate a stream of Enemy Bombers. 20 mm Flak guns could even have been mounted in cargo planes firing though the side door. Would these Ideas have been possible?

  2. #2
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    Andy
    Not to sure about calibers bigger than 30mm being used on aircraft against others.
    Try this.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hurricane_variants - I think this was intended more for ground targets. i would have tried though aircraft to aircraft!!!
    I am also sure there was a version of the pounder that was used.
    Fairly sure I posted here eons ago re a projectile I had that was a bit longer than the standard & I was informed it was for an aircraft mounted gun.
    Obviously there is the 40mm bofors in the C130 Gunship - again this aircraft is for attacking ground targets.
    Rgds
    H
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  3. #3
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    theoretically a good idea, practicably perhaps not. I suspect recoil could be a real issue for any ground mounted gun being used in aircraft of anything over 20mm.
    Though having said that, I have no idea if experimens were undertaken.

    regards Kev

    here is a 6pdr gun used on a mosquito....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M00f5RxhxLY

    and 40mm wing mounted on Hurricane
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix5xN8hlGLo

    neither of these weapons were AA guns though
    Last edited by butterfly; 26th January 2014 at 03:05 PM.

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    Andy
    Found my earlier post
    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...der+projectile
    Doesn't really answer your question - so apologies
    7SF - Admit nothing, deny everything!

  5. #5
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    The use of large calibre cannon on aircraft for shooting at other aircraft is fairly common and well covered by Tony Williams in Flying guns and on his website. Started in WW1 with 37mm cannon mounted in a SPAD fighter firing canister rounds. The Germans did a lot of work in WW2 as they faced the most 4 engined bombers, good example being the 50mm tank gun fitted in the ME-410 twin engined fighter that was used against USAAF daylight bombers until the single engined escort fighters arrived. Don't forget the 37mm cannon mounted as standard in the P-39 Airacobra widely used by the USAAF in the early part of WW2.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the replys guys. I knew about the 40mm Hurricane cannon and the Mosquito 6 pounder, but as you say these were used on ground targets. I guess you wouldn't need the gun to fire Flak rounds as you would be able to accurately hit the Aircraft from short range. Something like the QF 2 Pounder MKVIII with a longer Air cooled Barrel would be my choice fitted in to a Mosquito. The round is smaller so more could be carried, the shorter range over the Bofors wouldn't be an issue. I think it's strange that no one had this idea on either side.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Vasco, I'll have to look it up. I think the idea of flying in formation above the enemy Bombers, Accurately sniping them would have been a better option than flying amongst them taking rushed shots and risking getting shot at by the massed guns of the bombers would have been a better tactic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasco Da Gama View Post
    The use of large calibre cannon on aircraft for shooting at other aircraft is fairly common and well covered by Tony Williams in Flying guns and on his website. Started in WW1 with 37mm cannon mounted in a SPAD fighter firing canister rounds. The Germans did a lot of work in WW2 as they faced the most 4 engined bombers, good example being the 50mm tank gun fitted in the ME-410 twin engined fighter that was used against USAAF daylight bombers until the single engined escort fighters arrived. Don't forget the 37mm cannon mounted as standard in the P-39 Airacobra widely used by the USAAF in the early part of WW2.

    The 50mm used by the Germans was an altered AT gun (Pak 38). As was the 75mm (Pak 40).
    The only AA gun used in air was the 37mm Flak 18 as 3,7cm BK. The 20x138B MG C/30L was basically only a small scale trial whic was used on the He112 and saw service in the Spanish Civil War.
    Normally AA guns are to heavy to be mounted in aircrafts.
    All this was a reason for the Germans to work on rocket armament for aricrafts which came too late in the war and only the allies profited from these developments after 1945.

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    IIRC the Hungarians mounted a 40mm Bofors in some Me 210s, but I'm not offhand certain what they used them for. I have an even vaguer recollection that the Italians fitted the Breda 37mm AA gun to some planes, but I could be wrong there.

    The US 37mm M9 cannon was a version of their M1 AA gun lightened for aircraft use and fitted with belt feed. It fired the usual 37 x 223SR AA ammo, much more powerful than the 37 x 145R used in the M4 and M10 guns in the P-39. It only saw experimental use, though (it was fitted to one P-63D and at least one twin-engined plane, plus some PT boats).

    The Vickers Class S was actually designed for air-to-air fighting, firing the same ammo as the 2 pr pom-pom AA (although the gun was a different design and much lighter). The first installation was in a turret fitted to a much-modified Wellington bomber, intend for self-defence. Trouble was the muzzle blast blew the fabric off the fuselage.

    The most ambitious scheme which came close to being tested was fitting a 3.7 inch AA gun, with autoloader, in a Mosquito, to fire prox-fused shells against bombers. There were also even wilder plans to mount the same gun in turrets fitted to super-giant bombers.

  10. #10
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    Thanks Tony for the info. I found two pics of the Wellington. If they had fitted the gun in the bomb bay instead with a limited traverse and Elevation I think it would have been a Bomber killer.
    Attached Images Attached Images

 

 
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