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120mm projectile ID

Burney Davis

Burney Davis

Moderator
Premium Member
Can anyone point me in the right direction as to nationality of this proj, which gun and did it have a cartridge case or bag charge. It came without a fuze but I have put in a fuze of the type I believe it had, just the probably the wrong nationality!

Many thanks

D
 

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interesting shell, I don't know about the nationality but fuze and shell looks like French Schneider export design.
 
Perhaps not much but found some Italian projectiles with the same strange base, only in differant sizes.
 
blu97 said:
Perhaps not much but found some Italian projectiles with the same strange base, only in differant sizes.
Click to expand...

I can find no mention of this model of 120mm shell in the information on Italian ordnance that I have. It struck me as strange that the calibre was marked in m/m at this period. I also have an HE projectile of 70m/m made by the same maker, dated 1915 with the same base shape. Can any of our Italian members shed any light?
 
it is not Italian for sure ;-) Blu97 just found some Italian shells with Schneider design (base shape)

I remember having a document with a shell which has also this base shape (not a Italian drawing) but after an hour of searching I give up.
 
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Alpini said:
it is not Italian for sure ;-) Blu97 just found some Italian shells with Schneider design (base shape)

I remember having a document with a shell which has also this base shape (not a Italian drawing) but after an hour of searching I give up.
Click to expand...

Well thanks for looking Alpini.

D
 
Do you known wich manufacturor is PEW ?

Seeing the marking (120 m/m SH) and the separation of the head, I believe it's a schrapnel projectile.
Can you give us the dimensions of your projo (length, width of the band, distance band-bottom,...) ?


Yoda
 
it's a shrapnel for sure and the fuze is not really german, the Leuchtgeschossznder S/22 for 77 m star shells looks much different (it has three rings and is made completely in aluminium)

The usage of "m/m" for milimeter excludes some countries but there are still to many possible candidates. My guess is, that it was made in a country which was neutral in WW1 because nobody knows it.
 
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Alpini said:
it's a shrapnel for sure and the fuze is not really german, the Leuchtgeschossznder S/22 for 77 m star shells looks much different (it has three rings and is made completely in aluminium)

The usage of "m/m" for milimeter excludes some countries but there are still to many possible candidates. My guess is, that it was made in a country which was neutral in WW1 because nobody knows it.
Click to expand...

Alpini is right on both counts, this is definitely shrapnel as it has the pusher plate and tube in it. And the fuze is not the s/22. The threads are completely different on that fuze.

D
 
Yodamaster said:
Do you known wich manufacturor is PEW ?

Seeing the marking (120 m/m SH) and the separation of the head, I believe it's a schrapnel projectile.
Can you give us the dimensions of your projo (length, width of the band, distance band-bottom,...) ?


Yoda
Click to expand...

I have no idea who the maker is or which country it would have been made for. The paint almost looks like Italian as has been said before, but I'm not convinced as I have a 70mm shell made by the same maker which is yellow and black.

The dimensions are

base to band 37mm,

driving band 15mm,

Total length approx. 310mm ex fuze.

Hope that helps.
 
Burney Davis said:
Thanks for your input Joery, but please see previous posts. Similar looking fuze, but not for the 77mm shell.

D
Click to expand...

hello,

I am 100% sure its for the 7,7cm leuchtgranate.
the are three types of 7,7cm leuchtgeschoss.
the first one has a Dopp.Z 96
the second one has a Lg.Zdr.S/22 what alpini says.
the third has this fuze that you have,and is for the 7,7cm K.leuchtgeschoss n/A.
when i find the time,I post pictures of it.
this projectile is in my collection.

grtz joery
 
Yodamaster said:
Do you known wich manufacturor is PEW ?

Seeing the marking (120 m/m SH) and the separation of the head, I believe it's a schrapnel projectile.
Can you give us the dimensions of your projo (length, width of the band, distance band-bottom,...) ?



Yoda
Click to expand...


do not know what PEW means.
the projectile reminds me of french production for the belgian cannons.
there exists a similar projectile,but in 150mm.

grtz joery
 
Hello,

Never seen such a shell but the fuze (shown on wk2ammo) is a French Schneider EC10 made for export (100% sure too !)

The only shell I know with a cut base like this is a 75mm with St Chamond Fuze (Belgian use a 75 like this with a groove below the driving band)

Regards.


PC036492.JPG
 
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hello,

Here is a picture of my 7.7cm K.leuchtgeschoss N / A.
and this is the right fuze.
He is also in the Memorial Museum Passchendaele 1917 with this fuze designed specifically for star shells.
know more museum with this grenade and those fuze on it.
still looking between my documents,have it on paper.

grtz joery



DSC_1168.JPGDSC_1167.JPG
 
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@Minenaz16: exactly! I even think that "E.C. 10" is written on the fuze.

@Joery: if you don't trust us, take a look at the base of the fuze. There you will see that it has a percussion system which makes it a double action fuze. And double action fuzes are never used on star shells, they always have time fuzes. The only facts on your fuze which are german are the fuze thread type and the general fuze shape which both were invented by the Fried. Krupp A.G. Factory. The French Schneider company (and many other factories around the world) produced fuzes with this shape to make it compatible to the original Krupp ammunition. For example Bulgaria first ordered 75 mm Krupp guns. Later they ordered Schneider guns and requested Schneider to produce Guns compatible to the older Krupp guns as they did not want separate ammunition logistics for both guns.

About one thing I have some doubts. The Lg.Z.S/22 has a much smaller thread than your Schneider fuze, but it fits into the cap of your star shell. Do you know if cap and shell body found together or both parts alone? If found together your star shell could be a special Krupp production. If not I think you have the cap of a 75 mm star shell (75x278R Krupp calibre) on the body of a 77 mm star shell.
 
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