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  1. #1
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    "Kaiserliche Admiralitat 1886" document

    Good Evening all,

    I have a couple of diagrams from the "German Imperial Admiralty 1886" and wondering if anyone has this reference?

    Thanks

    Cheers

    Drew
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  2. #2
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    Further I have received advice from the Explosion Museum in Gosport that the above two diagrams are of the Schwartzkopf C/84 torpedo (1883/84), which is a 14" (35cm) torpedo.

    Recent research indicated that my Schwartzkopf pistol was from one of the early smaller 14" torpedoes, exactly which period was unknown until now, but would be approx. from between 1876 - 1888 (more on this in a future thread!) as the C/84A (1888) had a different pistol design.

    As there is extremely little, bordering on "nothing at all" information on torpedo pistol design and development prior to 1890, the above could be incorrect.......................

    Hum, I think I will have to re-shape my dummy striker...................

    Cheers

    Drew
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  3. #3
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    This pistol looks similar.

    It is in the Naval Museum in Montevideo.
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    Hi Will,

    Yes I'm very familiar with your pic as I have used it for researching early pistol designs..........

    I believe this was one of the next Schwartzkopf torpedo pistol designs after the one I posted above - the shorter body, shape and shear washer (lack of any shear pin holes) design matches the "war nose" diagram from the 1903 USN Schwartzkopf manual. The only thing I can't determine from the photo if it has the characteristic "bayonet" style locking mechanism. In addition, still not quite sure when this pistol design was first introduced - it might have been when the C/91 series of (1891) torpedoes were introduced as the C/84A (1888) and C/84B (1890) appears to have a completely different type of contact pistol. The fuze in your photo is also the same as the one shown on the middle torpedo.

    The USN purchased their 12 x 14' Schwartzkopf torpedoes in 1898 (in which the 1903 manual is based on), indicating a possible first production year between 1891 and 1898.........

    I can't quite make out the number stamp on the fuze itself? Looks like "1920" is stamp on the nose cone part........from your original photo can you read the number and advise? I have a theory that the stamp apart from matching /identifying different sections of the same torpedo (they manufactured a torpedo back then in approx. 8 sections and shipped them in four prior to being re-assembled) was also the serial number - more on that in a later post.

    BTW - I did contact the Naval Museum in Montevideo seeking further information on the pistol & nose cone and sent them your photo - got a reply back stating they don't have it in the Museum............go figure!!!!

    Cheers

    Drew
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    Last edited by Dronic69; 7th May 2014 at 03:17 PM.

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    Hello ,
    I bought this fuze about 25 years ago out of an old collection , the owner told me it was a german fuze becaused it is marked P for Polte .
    Is this an other model of a Schwartzkopf fuze ? I let the pictures speak for themselves . The only markings are P , a navan anchor and 423 ( serial number ? ) .
    Seppe.001.jpg002.jpg006.jpg007.jpg011.jpg014.jpg015.jpg

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to seppe For This Useful Post:

    Dronic69 (10th May 2014)

  7. #6
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    Polte did not produce fuzes.

  8. #7
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    Hi Drew,

    I posted a full resolution image of what I have. It is the only picture I took.

    There is a picture of another Torpedo Warhead on the Museum's website.

    http://www.histarmar.com.ar/Museos/M...alROU/MN09.jpg

    Regards,

    Will.

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    Hi Seppe,

    This is not a Schwartzkopf fuze* IMO but resembles a Whitehead Mk1 instead (see photo) ......................it hasn't the Schwartzkopf characteristic "bayonet" style locking mechanism (refer to the above photos in this thread) but has the typical Whitehead screw thread. The "P" and anchor stamp are interesting - may not have been produced by the Whitehead Fiume factory, but under licence by a foreign government (Whitehead spent most of this time trying to flog this torpedo design off to anyone and everyone)

    *I state not a Schwartzkopf but bear in mind that Schwartzkopf "copied" the Whitehead design /torpedo in 1873 and produced a Whitehead copy in 1876 - also was referred to as a "Blackhead", but in general was known as a "Whitehead-Schwartzkopf" torpedo. (Seemed everyone knew about it) - this was based on the 1871 Fiume 14" (small) torpedo. The fact that Schwartzkopf initially "copied" it, I'm assuming the Whitehead torpedo was copied 100% in all details, which would indicate that the Schwartzkopf pistol also had a screw thread rather than the bayonet attachment back then. It is documented that in 1883, Schwartzkopf introduced another 14" torpedo (i.e. the C/84) which had increased speed, range and charge - it was perhaps during this time that the first appearance of the "bayonet" style attachment was introduced as shown earlier in this thread with my C/84 pistol body. I have located one or two photos of the corresponding Circa 1877 Whitehead torpedoes (referred to as either "C/77" or "C35/77" in German documentation) in which the pistol design can be visualized. This design was based more on a direct impact exploder and appears not to have any arming (fan) nor shear pin /washer protection. I'll post my research of early Whitehead /Schwartzkopf pistol design development between 1871 to 1900 in the near future.

    There is also a recent thread on the Whitehead Mk1:

    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...orpedo-Pistols

    Thanks for posting the photos of your pistol.

    Cheers

    Drew
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    Last edited by Dronic69; 8th May 2014 at 04:04 AM.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by glevum View Post
    Hi Drew,

    I posted a full resolution image of what I have. It is the only picture I took.

    There is a picture of another Torpedo Warhead on the Museum's website.

    http://www.histarmar.com.ar/Museos/M...alROU/MN09.jpg

    Regards,

    Will.
    Thanks Will,

    I'll try sending another email with "their" website photo attached and see what response I get................... from memory the Museum replied back within a day or so.

    Thanks

    Cheers
    Drew

  11. #10
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    This is a fascinating thread
    Does anyone know how many early 14 inch Whiteheads survive in Museums and collections (I know of one in NZ) - The photo of three posted by Dronic69 looks very interesting.
    Didnt the Schwartzkopf also use more bronze in construction that the whitehead.
    Kume

 

 
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