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  1. #1
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    Oiled primers and the law

    Inert small arms ammunition with the propellant removed and the primer treated with oil seems to be very widely sold in the UK.

    Is there any written information from a known source that says that this method is compliant with the law?

    I have heard that it varies depending on who examines it.

    Thanks for any info.

  2. #2
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    I tried some time ago primers on rifle cases treated with different types of oil. After soaking them propderly I fired them and about 80% ignited still.
    Thus, I no longer sell any cases with oiled primers as inert. Don't know what your law is but that's what I do.

  3. #3
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    I too have tried oil and they still go off and some just fizz a bit but the best stuff to use is vinegar it works strait away, as regards to the law i dont think there is anything written down but they seem to except oiling as safe, well they do here is suffolk.
    Andy
    PS Oil will work it just takes a little longer
    Last edited by Andysarmoury; 23rd August 2014 at 07:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    It expands on the oil used, penetrating oil I am told is best.

  5. #5
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    I've had cases oiled since the early 80s and they still go off. Quite a few cases are lacquered on the inside to prevent moisture killing the primer in storeage/on issue and it also stops oil getting through. I think you will find that if you read the letter of the law, a live primer in an inert round is not illegal. Some police forces will try and force you to assume otherwise but I think they are incorrect. Hampshire police will confiscate rounds with unstruck primers but I bet they wouldn't try and prosecute on it. BUT, in fairness to them, I was given an unwanted bag of small arms ammo. by a well known museum. But when I looked at what I had been given, I started to doubt myself if it was live or inert - can you tell the difference in your hand of the weight of a live 9mm or .380 round and an inert one - I bet not. And that changed my whole view of collecting inert cartridges - what difference does a struck primer really make if you try and, from the police point of view, compare it with the cost of a life should it fall into the wrong hands. So I went through all my hundreds of rounds that I know are inert and have had for 30/40 even 50 years and struck the lot. And even I was surprised at how many went off. Bear also in mind the cost of having a single round examined to confirm if it is live or not (perhaps £125) and you will see why the police more or less have to take a line which is not strictly within the letter of the law. Its a sign of the times we live in and there is no point sticking your head in a bucket of sand and hoping it will go away - it won't (but if you have to, try and find one of those really nice red buckets with 'FIRE' written on them, they're great!). The police have a difficult enough job to do as it is, we expect them to uphold law and order, safeguard us and our families but increasingly expect them to do it with diminishing resources and one hand tied very firmly up their, sorry, behind their, backs. Well, thats my view anyway - if you want, get a firearms certificate to collect live ammo, at least the authorities will know who & where you are and you'll have to keep it very securely under lock and key. Otherwise, do what you can to help the authorities to do a difficult job and accept that we, currently, have a freedom that many European countries do not have in respect of collecting inert ordnance.
    Here ends this evenings sermon

    Dave

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Rrickoshae For This Useful Post:

    25thapril (24th August 2014), AMMOTECHXT (29th August 2014), beihan62 (23rd August 2014), Charlie (24th August 2014), glevum (23rd August 2014)

  7. #6
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    Howdy Guys,

    The only way to tell if a round is empty/inert is if you have pulled the projectile out yourself, emptied the propellant out & struck the primer & reassembled it.

    I have made a tool up that takes different cases with no projectile & propellant removed, that allows the primer to be struck within a confined area. I can reassemble the proj into cart & is easily ID as inert to satisfy any sticky beaks!

    In South Australia (I know you are on the other side of the world) live primers & or propellant are classed as ammunition even if they are not in a complete assembled round. All my display items have been deactivated in this way. We are able to trade in these inert items between collectors/anyone without being hassled. (except in some states of Australia where empty fired brass is classed as ammunition-rather ridiculous!).

    Regards Ozzi.

  8. #7
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    In Germany according the law, a life round has 4 parts, case, bullet, primer and powder.
    If one is missing it is not a cartridge anymore as mention in this law.
    It is common to remove the powder and replace it by a lead ball as used in a shot cartridge

    You donít must be an ammo specialist to hear the noise of the pellet if you shake the cartridge.

    Rgds
    Dutch

  9. #8
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    Thanks for the replies.

    Sellers who sell rounds with oiled primers usually also put something loose inside the case as Dutch describes. As far as I know, UK law also defines ammunition as having a case, bullet, primer and powder. This is why blank ammunition is legal to own with no FAC in the UK.

    I presume that most police forces are happy with it, judging by how widely it seems to be sold on the militaria market, both at shows and on the internet.

  10. #9
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    As I understand it with the passing of the Violent Crimes Reduction Act 2006 it became an offence in the UK in April 2007 to sell a cap type primer for use in a metallic cartridge in a firearm without the production appropriate certificate. Capped cases are included not just loose primers

    Posession is not an offence, just the sale. Blank ammunition is not affected.

    If you reload rifle cartridges you now need to show your FAC when you buy primers.

    I think it would be prudent to only have struck primers unless you have a ticket.

    http://basc.org.uk/firearms/violent-...reduction-act/
    Last edited by glevum; 26th August 2014 at 11:37 PM.

  11. #10
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    Inert unstruck primers are legal,the above refers to live unstruck primers,oil does not work on most primers because most have a membrane over them,vinegar,and other weak acids, does work as it dissolves the membrane and the primer compound....Also I have been told that Hampshire police do not recognise oiling of primers as a method of inerting primers(but they have to be reminded that they are not the law and just inforce it now and again)....struck primers in your collection?...not for me I'm afraid as it opens up the old can of worms of any bullet being stuffed in a case!.....the recent War and Peace show was a perfect example as it would seem the fashion this year was for Vulcan projectiles to be found in just about any 20mm case handy at the time!

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to smle2009 For This Useful Post:

    Andysarmoury (27th August 2014)

 

 
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