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  1. #1
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    possible - British Torpedo Gyroscope? help needed

    This is a recent find,

    I bought it as a British Torpedo Gyroscope, however I cannot be certain, hopefully someone can help identify it. - Torpedo gyro or not it would be nice to find out exactly what it is.
    here are some pictures.....

    regards Kev


    P1221227.jpgP1221228.jpgP1221229.jpgP1221230.jpgP1221231.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Beautiful specimen, Butterfly!

    I have been collecting torpedo gyroscopes for about 15 years now. I have specimens from 1902 to present day with 8 countries represented and I have never seen this one. That being said, it does look like a torpedo gyro to me. It looks to be compressed gas driven? If so, I'm guessing it is pretty old. VERY VERY NICE!

    Jason

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    Hi Jason,
    thanks for your reply.........I'm even more curious now.

    I read your thread, link below, and I can see some similarities in yours and the one I have.
    First of all the lettering AA - I dont know the significance of this but it appears on both your British example and this one.
    Secondly, there is a 'disc' enscribed, what appears to be 0 - 9 in 180degrees - 0-9 in Red (port?) and 0-9 in Black? (Starboard?). On my example it is beneath the 'sphere' , on yours it is above. (see photos below) (I dont know what this is for but its common to both.

    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...pedo-Gyroscope

    Finally I have added some photos of detail which you may recognise for positive ID as a Torpedo Gyro. (apologies for the quality, snapshots taken under artifical light, but you may get some ideas from them)

    I was told by the seller it was from a British MK VIII torpedo - however over the years I have learnt not to 'trust' all I am told - so would like to find out for certain.

    any help appreciated.

    kind regards KevP1231227.jpgP1231228.jpgP1231229.jpgP1231230.jpgP1231231.jpg

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    Jason,

    here are two photographs shown in your thread, I have marked on them, both the 'AA' mark and the '0-9 disc' I refer to above (I'm afraid I dont know the proper terminology for the latter).

    regards Kev

    0-9 disc.jpgaa mark.jpg

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    Yes, your gyro looks like a torpedo gyro but not for the Mark VIII. The Mark VIII and Mark IX torpedoes are run completely using compressed air and Shale Oil. The oil and air together power the 4 cylinder engine and compressed air does everything else; run up the gyro wheel, sense gyro movement, actuate steering rudders and depth planes. The gyro wheel is a lovely shiny bronze flywheel with lots of little "buckets" machined into its periphery into which high pressure air is directed. Almost everything you see inside a Mark VIII or IX is bronze, the gyro and gimbals, depth attitude pendulum, engine - all bronze.

    gravelbelly

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  9. #6
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    Hi gravelbelly,

    thankyou for the confirmation that what I have is actually a torpedo gyro........ now its just a case of working out which one!!

    here are some more close up pics. I tried to take some pictures of the buckets on the flywheel, but its only visible through two holes which appear to line up with the brass tubes (for air?), I guess when it is initially run. I also tried to take a photo of one hole lined up with the tube.

    there is also a few other features that I dont know what they are, including a small 'nozzle' and a brass fitment that is machined as though something fits into it. I'm afraid I dont know a lot about these, but find it fascinating. I certainly would be interested to know what sort of age it is and if possible get a positive ID. Unfortunately my search so far on the internet has proved fruitless; I cant find anything similar.

    I am assuming that it is a British gyro?

    regards Kev

    P1231227.jpgP1231228.jpgP1231229.jpgP1231230.jpgP1231231.jpg
    Last edited by butterfly; 24th January 2015 at 12:03 AM.

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterfly View Post


    I am assuming that it is a British gyro?

    regards Kev

    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmxNp1h8pL0


    Hey Kev,

    I'm wondering if it is an alignment mark or a "broad arrow" stamp clearly shown at the base of the gyro in Photo #2 in your first post???

    Perhaps the "6/47" is the date stamp?

    HNSA website seems to have undergone a facelift and unfortunately quite a number of the old service manuals are no longer available - use to have a number on WW2 British related naval ordnance.

    In my opinion the construction appears to be a torpedo gyro - but Jason is the expert on Gyros and giant Ninja Turtles!!! .

    Cheers
    Drew
    Last edited by Dronic69; 24th January 2015 at 04:39 AM.

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dronic69

    Hey Kev,

    I'm wondering if it is an alignment mark or a "broad arrow" stamp clearly shown at the base of the gyro in Photo #2 in your first post???

    Perhaps the "6/47" is the date stamp?

    HNSA website seems to have undergone a facelift and unfortunately quite a number of the old service manuals are no longer available - use to have a number on WW2 British related naval ordnance.

    In my opinion the construction appears to be a torpedo gyro - but Jason is the expert on Gyros and giant Ninja Turtles!!! .

    Cheers
    Drew
    Hi Drew,

    Thanks for your reply; I am now confident that what I have is indeed a Torpedo Gyro. The Gyro flywheel has buckets, but they are concealed in the 'sphere' and can only be seen through two holes which appear to line up with two tubes set into the outer gimbal, when the gyro would be caged. (.....I am learning a little about these amazing items!!) ........ as yet I am not sure how the gyro was 'caged', but this may be obvious to someone with more experience in these items.

    As for the arrow in the photo you posted, I can confirm that this is actually an alignment arrow; photo three in post 3 of this thread, shows it aligned with a line and '0' - there is another number which is not easy to read right next to the gimbal, which appears to be a '5' (the whole gyro has residue lubricant - oil or grease and could do with a good clean, though I havent attempted to do anything of the kind yet, as I didnt want to do any harm to it.
    Again, I am not sure of the action of the brass section which forms one end of the outer gimbal, but I can only assume at this stage that it is part of 'offset' angle setting, whereby the torpedo is set to run at an angle other than that of the tube that launches it.
    There are however other arrows on the Gyro, may be for alignment, but one I think may be a broad arrow - I will photograph them asap.

    There does appear to be a lack of any material on British Torpedoes as a whole. Very little on the internet that I can see. It is a pity that the manuals were removed from the website you mention, hopefully though someone will have downloaded them whilst they were there and maybe come up with an answer for this one.

    The 6 47 may well be a date, indeed the seller said it was the date, however like everything else I will wait to see. I am not sure if the '/' between the two numbers (ie; 6 / 47), is just a 'scratch' mark which happens to be in the right place, or has been put there on purpose - it appears a little rough in comparison to the stamped numbers.........again I would need to see how other gyros conform, and if dates were put onto them before I can be sure. However having said that, from what I have seen on the internet about these, this one does appear to be a reasonably early example and could well fit into the time period (47 ??). I wouldnt want to narrow things down in my search regarding this mark though, and use it as a 'guide only' in my quest to find out exactly what timeframe and indeed what type of torpedo it is from.


    I will upload more photos using daylight as soon as my camera batteries are recharged!!

    many thanks Drew, and indeed everyone who has helped me so far with this.

    kind regards Kev
    Last edited by butterfly; 24th January 2015 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #9
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    Hey Kev,

    Have a look at this old post of mine re the German WW2 torpedo gyro - it explains (well I hope it does!) how the limiter (points "B" & "C") restricts the initial movement of the gyro until the compressed air has sufficient time to spin it up to the operating rpm.

    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...5-Torpedo-Gyro

    In the restricted position, the compressed air nozzle is directed onto the machined "buckets" around the circumference of the gyro, enabling optimization to the required operating rpm.

    If you compared a number of different torpedo gyros, the steering gyros all appear to be based on a standard physical size and construction- there are also "other" gyros used in some torpedoes (aerial) for stabilizing, which are normally physically smaller compared to the steering gyro.

    Cheers
    Drew
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Dronic69; 24th January 2015 at 11:45 AM.

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  14. #10
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    more detailed photos as promised........(more to follow)....

    in this batch,
    photo 1 shows the numbered disc located inside the sphere - hopefully showing the two colours red and black?
    photo 2 & 3 show the 'buckets' photographed through one of the two holes. not easy to photograph but the buckets themselves are quite deep and obviously rotated by compressed air/gas. These are remarkable to see, but almost impossible to photograph, I am sorry for the poor quality of the images, which is not helped by the reflection of the sphere!!
    photo 4 shows the arrow, referred to earlier in this thread by Drew, this photo shows that it is clearly for alignment purposes and is set at 0. there is another number to the left hand side, close to the gimbal, which looks to be a number 5 - a clean up may make things clearer as there is an accumulation of dirt/grease/dust etc.
    photos 5 & 6 show a brass tube fixed into the gimbal, presumably for air, this tube then appears to pass to the underside of the outer gimbal, to the end opposite that to where the brass geared mechanism is located. These two photos also show another 'arrow' this time located on one of the brass tubes - I suspect this is for alignment, but what for I dont know?


    P1241227.jpgP1241228.jpgP1241229.jpgP1241231.jpgP1241232.jpgP1241233.jpg
    Last edited by butterfly; 24th January 2015 at 01:03 PM.

 

 
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