German 57mm WW1 case

[Vasco Da Gama]

The pictured case turned up recently in a local antique fair, initially I thought it was a naval 5cm case but it is clearly not! The measurements are mouth 58mm, length 359mm and rim 68mm. Very clear markings to Karlsruhe and 1916, I started to look in the direction of Naval guns but there is no Marine marking so I am stumped! The date is also of the wrong style for the Navy. Very glad to have your views, pictured alongside a standard 5cm 333mm case for comparison.

 

[Big Dave]

Germany A7V tank case ?only a guess , regards Dave

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Thanks Dave
My understanding is that the gun in the A7V was the Nordenfeldt 57x224, picture alongside the u identified German case.

 

[Tony Williams]

My understanding is that the gun in the A7V was the Nordenfeldt 57x224, picture alongside the u identified German case.

That is correct.

 

[Hoeksel]

52x463R64, 5,2 cm SL K/55. Very hard to find case, nice find! In my many years of colecting I only found one.

 

[Alpini]

52x463R64, 5,2 cm SL K/55. Very hard to find case, nice find! In my many years of colecting I only found one.

look at his meassurements, not one of them fits. The date of 1916 would be very late for such a case and the headstamp arrangement is not from the Marine it's an export headstamp...

 

[silent knight]

I agree with Alpini

here is the comparison between a 5,2 cm SK L/55 cartridge case (left) and Vasco's case

 

[Hoeksel]

Sorry, completely missed the measurements and responded way to quickly......can't help, don't know the case and indeed it has export markings. I do know of another case with these measuremenst dated 1910.

 

[Alpini]

there are Krupp 5,7 cm L/30 and 5,7 cm L/40 guns. Sadly I don't know anything about their ammunition. Maybe these can be an option?

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Many thanks for all of your comments. My logic is that the gun is powerful, (length of case) hence the thought about a naval connection but the export markings move us beyond the German Navy. If Germany was making ammunition for export in 1916 the customer must have been a key ally. I then had a look at the Turkish Navy.

The Turkish Navy in 1905 ordered from Germany the Berk-I-Satvet class of torpedo gunboats which were armed with Krupp guns: 10.5cm/40 and possibly 5.2cm/55. However, mention is made of a Krupp 57mm L/40 semi-automatic gun. I found the case in Liverpool which has long connections with the Maritime community and many ships have been updated or scrapped on the Mersey.

Just a thought, do we have a Turkish Navy expert in the house!

 

[Alpini]

I now found informations about the Krupp 5,7 cm L/40 (called 6 cm L/40) gun. It used 57x307R like the 6pr's. So we can also exclude this gun. I hope we find the answer in the future...

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

The identity of this case is still a mystery to me. However, another case has just turned up on EBay, I checked the measurements with the seller. The case has been turned into trench art by the application of, probably, silver work, thankfully not changing the basic case. The interesting element for us is the work on the case is clearly Arabic/Turkish script. I thought about buying it, but the price is £360! I think we are once again looking at an export gun in use by the Turkish forces in WW1.
The seller is duncan7303 if you wish to have a look.

 

[Hoeksel]

I am investigating export codes (178) and I know a collector with the same case. Based on the fact it was exported during WW1 it must have been an ally of Germany and then Turkey and/or Bulgaria are probably the user of the gun.

 

[Hoeksel]

The case from my friend has a letter "M" and a half moon above it. He always assumed it was a Kriegsmarine stamp, but I told him this is strange as it is intended for export. When he looked closer we noted the M with half moon. So I would bet my money on Turkish.

 

[charley777]

I have a listing for 57x359R x68 for a Krupp gun with no further information

 

[Hoeksel]

So safe to say it is most likely a Turkish Krupp based navy gun. My collector friend also had a projectile with Arabic style writing, so very likely the correct projectile for this case. I also show here the "M" with half moon.

 

[Hoeksel]

And maybe another piece of the puzzle found on https://forum.axishistory.com/viewt...sid=d5a9bc9759189110494fd8a7dc1e6815&start=15, Turkey bought 56 x 5,7 cm L/40 Krupp navy guns over the period 1902 - 1910.