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Replica 9.2 inch Projectiles

I see what you mean....... But..... the drawing you refer to has the dates 'pre 1945' and '45 - 48'. So my 1944 dated APC Shell weight marking should read either DEAD WEIGHT or the weight to the nearest lb. eg 379 lbs according to the guns handbook for markings on shells. Post 45 as shown in your drawings they indicated weight difference with the + or -

If im incorrect please correct me....... :tinysmile_shy_t:



At the risk of sending you apoplectic, you should have a weight marking for the actual shell weight in addition to the nominal shell weight for the periods pre '44 and '44 - '48.
See page 2 of this thread. A simple + or - figure will do.
 
379 lbs is the nominal weight of all that particular type of projectile in that marking system which is the pre '44 system.
In production there will always be variations in weight of metal and/or weight of filling, due to good or bad fill.

The person firing the gun has a range table and he adjusts his elevation due to air temperature at time of firing, the quarter of barrel life according to how many projectiles have been fired through that gun barrel etc. and another consideration has to be the actual weight of the of the particular projectile he is firing.

Different calibres have different meanings for the + or - weight markings. Smaller projectiles have graduations of 1 lb or half a lb. Big projectiles have 5 lb. In the case of 8" and 9.2" each graduation is in 2 lb variations. Therefore a 381 lb actual weight projectile is +1, 385 is +3 and so on. If the projectile actually weighed 378 or 380lbs it would be marked 'dead weight', but unless you are feeling particularly masochistic, I would settle for a nice + or - number.

I showed the '45 - '48 system to indicate that the marking system remained the same. The weight zone marking system changed in the '48 - '54 system.

I hope this helps.
 
Thank you for the information, it all helps with the understanding of a complex and often overlooked part of the marking system.


According to the Handbook for the 9.2 inch Gun (dated March 1944), the filled and fuzed weight of all 9.2 inch Shells is 380 lbs. This would be the 'DEAD WT.'

Under the 'Markings' section of the manual it states The DEAD WEIGHT or actual weight to the nearest lb. is to be stenciled onto the body of the shell.

So if I go by the gun's Handbook then a 380 lb shell is DEAD WT. and if its 379 lbs I'm to mark it on the shell '379 lbs'.


What you are saying is due to the 2 lb variation system, there shouldn't be any shells marked 379 or 381 as they fall into the DEAD WT. range. Shells weighing 377, 378, 382, 383 lbs should be marked as such prior to 1945 and after 1945 with the -2, -1, +1, +2 markings?

What if I just change the fill date to '43' :tinysmile_fatgrin_t


'Masochistic'.... me? never.... now where is that diamond saw and grinding bit, I have to carve the hollows out of the base so it looks like a real APC
9-2inch_02.jpg
 
Here's an image from under the 9.2 inch Gun from the North Head Sydney Battery Mark XII B APC (copryright to the AWM)

9.2" GUN XII B
FZD LOT 6
6269

DEAD WT
W. 24.8.38 (1)

T.N.T.
93

7

NorthHeadSydneyAWMPhoto.jpg
 
Thank you for the picture. You will notice that none of the projectiles have an actual weight marked on them, only the dead weight marking. This means that the actual weight of all those projectiles is identical to the nominal weight to within 1 lb either side for 9.2".

The weight on your original proj is a weight put on for the benefit of those handling the proj not those firing it.
I have never seen this marked on any calibre of proj before, but it makes sense, if you do not have the necessary statistics pamphlet and you have to manhandle the proj, where lifting equipment is not available.

The actual weight does not appear in any UK marking system.

That picture must have been taken somewhere near the actual gun because the rope grommet protectors have been removed from the driving bands.
 
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Right, with this now squirreled away into my head I will ensure all the Shells will have DEAD WT marked on them.

The photo is taken directly under the Gun platform in the emplacement, the shells are sitting in the ready use bay where they can be tipped over onto the loading trolleys. 2 Shells can be loaded onto the trolley when is then taken around to the loader and then locked into it so the trolley can move with the gun as it traverses. Elsewhere around the emplacement are ammunition lockers for the Shells and Cylinders.
 
If you're going to do the bases, you might like to look at the attached.

TimG

P.S. Should have added the Plate is marked "N.S." presumably Naval Service, who's base fuze markings might have extended to the 9.2"

024.jpg023.jpg
 
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Thanks Tim for the information about the fuzes it all helps and I'm finally getting things sorted.

At this stage I think we will hold off on painting the bases, the concrete is fairly fresh and any moisture needs somewhere to exit and hopefully that will be through the base. Some of the shells will be laying on their sides 'racked', I'll have to put them on the racks the wrong way round to hide the unpainted bases (noses facing outwards).

From the handbook for the gun it states:-

CPC and APC Shell
Fuzed APC and CPC shell have the base cover plate painted blue when No. 16D fuze is fitted and red in all other cases.

Here's another photo from the AWM of the North Head Battery's Magazine and the Ammunition Hoist (copryright to the AWM)
NorthHeadSydneyAWMPhoto-Magazine.jpg
 
5 shells complete.

1 almost finished (modification of the 1st APC shell with cap and crimp features being added).

2 waiting to be undercoated and base colour painted.

3 curing at the point of manufacture.

1 New shell being poured tomorrow.

Prototype shell at the fortress in an unpainted 'natural' state.

Another 8 - 10 shells yet to be made.

But now I have all my ducks in a row it should be a fairly easy process from now on thanks to the help from you and the other members of the forum.
 
Well, the first 6 shells have been delivered to the Fortress..... They are now sitting in Magazine No.1 Shell Store on some original timber racking that had been left in the Fortress after it was abandoned in the 1960's. We have done some calculations and the magazine would of held 300 shells consisting of:-

50 x HE Shells
100 x Practice Shells
150 x APC Shells

The rack shown would of held the 50 HE Shells.

Magazine1_ShellStore_01.jpgMagazine1_ShellStore_03.jpgMagazine1_ShellStore_04.jpgMagazine1_ShellStore_05.jpg
 
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9.2 Inch Range Finding Tables

I know this is off the topic, but thought this might be of interest. I saw these 9.2 inch range finding tables for the 9.2 Inch Gun in Simons Town, Upper North Battery for sale. I'm going to try to get them for the Naval Museum in Simons Town, if they are interested.



9.2 inch range finding c.jpg


9.2 inch range finding d.jpg
 
That's a very nice find.

I wonder what happened to the ones for Wrights Hill Battery, hopefully they are sitting in someones collection. There must of been a large set of these, one for each Gun so that's three, and then for the variations in ammunition 4 CRH or 6 CRH for each gun so that's a minimum of 6 for the Battery.
 
I've started building a replica Cartridge Store Rack to put the No.36 Cylinders on and to stop the visitors tipping them over. The original racks were made from steel 4x2 channel and 2x1.1/2 angle. At this stage I can't recreate the steel work so I'm doing it in Timber to the same pattern as the steel design. Hopefully in the future we can get the steel work done. We have 36 replica cylinders and one original so I will re-create 2 bays of racks (3 frame uprights).

One question, does anyone have an image, photograph or real examples of the labels used in a magazine to detail the various lots for Shells and Cartridges, I would like to make some replicas so they can be attached to the wood distance pieces as the originals would of been.

I would suspect the label would have sections for:-

Date:
Type:
Mark:
Lot:




CartridgeStoreRack.jpg


I'm also working on the racking for the Shells
 
Could you mould these in resin as well? I'm sure you well be able to sell these and they would be light enough to ship virtually anywhere?
 
Well, here is the racking for the No. 36 Cylinders. I still have to make a heap of wooden distance pieces, so that will be my task over the coming weeks.

20151116_221330.jpg

khanmak, I've talked to maker of the shells, he could make them as rigid foam, but the amount of foam needed could make them more expensive to make per unit, but they would be lighter.... maybe about 5 - 7 kg. Due to their size sending them anywhere no matter the weight will be expensive.
 
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