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Romanian Bombs WW2

Dreamk

Well-Known Member
The Romanian air Force in ww2 used a wide variety of bombs (must have been a serious headache for their ordnance personnel) as there was a long standing policy of buying bombs together with planes - so French bombs with French planes, Italian bombs with Italian planes and so on...Thye also bought from the German "booty bombs" - Polish and apparently Greek. Later they went on to produce their own bombs models
This is the non-exhaustive list (but quite extensive) of bombs present in the Romanian inventory in 1941 (numbers besides the type of the bomb indicate the number available at the beginning of the 1941 offensive).

French
50kg 345
100 kg 225
200 kg 298
500 kg 5

Romanian
12 kg 15
50 kg 205
100 kg ?
225 kg 383

American type (Greek ?)
50kg (100 lb?) 5
225 kg (500 lb) 42

German
SC50 892
SC250 125
PuW 12 kg 347
PuW 50 kg 276
PuW 100 kg 286
PuW 300 kg 68

British
4 lb (?) 8
20 lb 16
25 lb incendiary 14
40 lb 16
250 lb 54
500 lb 42

Polish
12 kg
50 kg PuW
50 kg MZT-32
50kg wz.39
50kg T-32
100 kg Z-31 (The Ż-31 actual weight is 110.86 kg but is generally classified as 100 Kg )
Michelin Flares
light "mouse-bomb" incendiary T-34

Italian
50 kg 10

Unknown
9kg Incendiary 12 (PuW?)
1kg Incendiary 64 (French? German?)

There were not Czech made bombs in use
So called WWI Michelin aerial bomb exhibited in the National Museum of Romanian Aviation in Bucharest - a WW1 era PuW or a Polish PuW Interwar clone

So called WWI Michelin aerial bomb exhibited in the National Museum of Romanian Aviation in Buch.jpg

PuW
Image3.jpg

Romanian produced 12kg bombs

Bomb IAR 37-39.jpg

French 50kg (or Polish ?) Tail fin
Image2.gif

Officially labelled as an aircraft bomb (could be a mortar round but similar mortar rounds were known to have been used as aerial bombs by the French, Italian, British, Russian and Spanish Republicans, so why not the Romanian)
Image1.gif

"American" (Greek ?) 225kg and "50"kg (100lbs) bombs
iar81a.jpg Image225 1.jpg Image225.jpg
Unidentified "300kg bombs" (from the Romanian manual of the SM79JR the Romanian version of the Italian SM79B - these are definitively not Italian bombs, may be an artistic retouch of PuW)
Image3 SM79B.jpg

Romanian Produced bombs 50kg/100kg/225kg
Bombe 50, 100,225 kg muzeu.jpg Image5.gif Image4.jpg

Could someone share more information of these last, Romanian produced bombs (dimensions, weights, drawings) ?
 
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An exceptional (the only one so far) photograph of multiple rack for anti-infantry frag grenades under the wing of a Romanian IAR-39 in the Southern Ukraine front where Romanian forces were active - a local Romanian version, much simplified of the Italian Sepzzonere. The rack, produced by IAR-Brasov, held 12 horizontal columns of 5 grenades each (for a total of 2 racks per aircarft, one under each wing , 120 anti-personnel grenades) .
The greande had a dely fuze that initiated the explosion 15 sec after drop. (The IAR-39 was a ground attack support biplane with "vol rasant" tactics)
The photo was published in the magazine Aripi Românești in 1943 and comes from the Romanian Military Propaganda Service.
photo was published in the magazine Aripi Românești in 1943 and SMP comes from the Military Pr.jpg

This photograph may be the key to the identification of the mysterious "Romanian cylindrical frag grenade" found in Odessa region, that appeared in the following threads in this forum:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/86174-What-is-it
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/84981-Something-Romanian
1.jpg2.jpg

The overall shape is consistent with an air-dropped spezzone, probably around 500g weight
Could one of the Romanian members of the forum furnish more details?
for comparison this is what an Italian frag spezzone looked like:
2kg Tipo F I_05a.jpgBomba italiana antipersonal de 2kg.jpgBomba de 2kg__(2).jpg

and a similar item (2kg frag bombs within their bombs rack tube) developed by Sweden in the thirties
insats för 2kg bomber i bombställ 3m m 38 012uMX4Msk8b.jpgInsats för 2 kg bomber i bombställ m38 EM 032wZ1bvW4Mg.jpg
 
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Hello Dreamk, nice to see this post.

Can you please provide the source of the inventory list? I would like to dig more into this subject.

Also, I would have some corrections to make to your two posts. I will try and adress each one idividually, with quotes.

Thye also bought from the German "booty bombs" - Polish and apparently Greek.

Regarding Polish bombs, it`s possible some of these are taken directly from Polish service, after part of the Polish army took refuge in Romania in Sept 1939, together with a small part of their airforce.
I have no info about Greek bombs in service, maybe you can share your sources on that?

Officially labelled as an aircraft bomb (could be a mortar round but similar mortar rounds were known to have been used as aerial bombs by the French, Italian, British, Russian and Spanish Republicans, so why not the Romanian)

That one to me looks like a German ww1 24cm Flügelmine....

"American" (Greek ?) 225kg and "50"kg (100lbs) bombs

In all aviation literature, these bombs are described as copies of American AN-M64(500lb, considered 250kg in Romanian use, actual 226kg) and AN-M30 bombs (100lb, considered 50kg in Romanian use, actual 45kg). Although external appearance seems identical, they use different suspension lugs and fuzes. As mentioned above, I don`t know of any Greek bombs delivered, and I think they would have been mentioned as such. Based on photos, I think there also should exist a 500kg variant, but I am not sure yet.

Romanian Produced bombs 50kg/100kg/225kg

According to my data, these bombs are 100kg/250kg/500kg.

The greande had a dely fuze that initiated the explosion 15 sec after drop. (The IAR-39 was a ground attack support biplane with "vol rasant" tactics)

According to the detailed photos of the fuze internals I have with such a device, in fact the system is much simpler than that, having a safety being released at the moment of the drop, and the cluster exploding on impact.

Also, there are two sizes of such cluster bombs, both using the same fuze. They were painted khaki.
 
Irod Hi!
a few short answers.
The list is based upon the list compiled by Denes Bernad, and completed with data based on photo evidence as well as data compiled from various sources dealing with arms trade in Europe in the interwar period , which is a throroughly interesting subject (did you know that Romania in the thirties used to pay for its arms imports in... tobacco!)
US bombs - they are of the M series (no AN-M bomb was or could even have been available to the Romanians) - no such bombs were sold directly to the Romanian, therefore the only 2 sources are:
a) the AAC company, widely active in Central Europe and the Balkans in the Interwar (and we know they sold such bombs to some of their clients)
b) German booty sold or transferred as a compensation (same as for Polish equipment) to Romania. The US M series was produced under license by the Compagnie de Poudres Helleniques, and we know that we have proof that some of these bombs were refurbished by the Germans (restamped etc..., see thread on this forum about these bombs) though they themselves did not use them - Romania seems the most probable destination of these bombs - this needs further research for confirmation, but it is presently the most plausible explanation for the source of these bombs in Romania.
c) 240mm mortar bomb - the German 24cm flugelmine was copied on the French pattern and these French mortar bombs, adaptable to use as a being dropped by airplanes, found their way in both roles all the countries on the Allied side in ww1 (including UK and Russia)
d) the data I wrote on the air dropped grenade is translated from a Romanian document, I'll try to upload it later - it has a very bad photo of one of the racks used (the only one I found so far) Do you have more documentation (drawings. photos) of these bombs and their racks?
e) DO you have details (dimensions!) of the bombs produced in Romania in late ww2 (that may or may not have seen operational service) that seem a mix design of US and German bombs (what I called Romanian Produced bombs 50kg/100kg/250kg, according to the appellation given to them by of the museum)
Thanks for helping to explore this subject!
 
As these are quite a number of topics, each with his own further discussions, I will try to address them in separate posts.
In this one I just want to thank you for the answer, I am in contact with Denes and I will look a bit into his data.
Regarding the Greek bombs:

As much as this is possible, I highly doubt it is the case. All Romanian bombs that I have seen (both "American" and "Romanian" models, in period photos / IRL examples) have a very typical, central-placed, single lug, hinged suspension, whereas the Greek ones use the dual lug, unhinged suspension, exactly the system used by the Americans. Although there is a posibility to grind these off and re-weld a new lug, I suspect it is not the case here.
Also, although Greece was "oficially" invaded by the end of April 1941 and Romania beginning operations against Soviet Russia in June 1941, this timeframe is too short for capturing, refurbishing, transferring and stockpiling in Romania of a large enough number of bombs, correspondent to what was being used during the first months of the war, and especially during the siege of Odessa in the autumn of 1941. So I would say this hypothesis is misleading.

About M-series vs AN-M series.... I am not proficient in US airdropped ordnance and have just taken "known thruths" published by authors such as Radu Brinzan and others that have published on this matter, especially on the bombs used by IAR-81. I agree there is no way Romania could have produced American ordnance under licence.... maybe reverse engineered would be a better term. After I will manage to measure the bombs on display at the National Military Museum, i will be able to come up with a conclusion.

Attached, two snips with the lug attachment I have been talking about.

Capture.JPGSuspension_lug.JPG
 
Irod Hi!
We must take into account a number of things:
1) Time frame - the AN-M series began to be designed in mid-42, and production began in Autumn of this same year - by this date Romania had been officially at war with the US for 9 months. So AN-M is excluded only the M series remains a possibility.
2) Photographs from the siege of Odessa show French bombs and PuW - I have not seen American looking bombs used by Romanian forces at such an early period.
3) Greek produced bombs were adapted in the 1940-41 to be used on French GPU and British Universal Carrier racks - whether this was done in the field or at the factory, I don't know.
4) The AAC stopped its activities in Europe in June 1940 after the invasion of Belgium and the Nederlands.

BTW the lug on the sectioned bomb on the photograph looks very similar to French articulated bombs lugs.
This bomb, BTW is NOT the American patterned bomb (look at the tails units on the photo I posted in the first post of this thread - they look more German inspired than US) but an original Romanian design about which we have almost no details.
This is an American bomb being loaded under an IAR-81 - the difference is obvious . The US box-tail unit is seen quite clearly.
14424723_1769253620018467_8459011643680523828_o.jpgImage225.jpg
Here is another photo of US bombs under a IAR-81 (apparently a 100lbs and a 250lbs or 300lbs)
Image225 1.jpg
Here's an enlargement of the tail unit of the Romanian designed bombs on display at the museum - no relation whatever with the US bombs seen on the IAR-81
Image5.gif
 
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Irod Hi!We must take into account a number of things:1) Time frame - the AN-M series began to be designed in mid-42, and production began in Autumn of this same year - by this date Romania had been officially at war with the US for 9 months. So AN-M is excluded only the M series remains a possibility.2) Photographs from the siege of Odessa show French bombs and PuW - I have not seen American looking bombs used by Romanian forces at such an early period.



Thanks for the clarification regarding the AN-M bombs! I understand your point now! Regarding the second point, you are wrong. Here are some frames I extracted from the propaganda movie "Războiul Sfânt" (Holy War) from 1942 that includes film footage from both He-111 and JRS-79B. You can clearly see the "American" style of tail unit.
vlcsnap-error808.jpgvlcsnap-error945.png

This is an American bomb being loaded under an IAR-81 - the difference is obvious . The US box-tail unit is seen quite clearly.

Regarding the tail on the sectioned bombs from MMN.... of course i know that, and if you look closely in the two lug photos I attached, one is with the sectioned ones that are the "true" Romanian design, the other is a snip from Războiul Sfânt where ground personnel are handling an "American" bomb. It shows the same style of lug being used on both bomb models.

You see, I have determined two types of bombs, both with unique shapes and unique tails:

-The "American" pattern, with a conical base and US style tail fins
-The Romanian pattern, with a German-style base and characteristic tail fins

What these types have in common is the single, articulated lug suspension and the very characteristic nose fuze plugs, having an adapter with two prongs sticking out (in sizes bigger than 250kg; there is also a smaller type without lugs for smaller bombs). The bombs being attached to the IAR-81 are Romanian, easily to identify by the nose plugs (and the fact that the IAR-81 uses a single lug suspension system).

Here is the adapter I am talking about:
Cap_1.JPG

And here is one from my collection, that a friend has donated to me :

122664451_379296406555241_4497005793852987382_n.jpg

According to my estimations, the "middle" bomb in the series of 3 sectioned bombs should be the 250 kg.
 
Irod Hi!
This is the data I got on the bomb racks of the IAR-37/38/39. Could you add more info on these?

"When the IAR-37 and 38 types appeared, they had IAR-Barbieri type bomb launchers with a bomb launch capacity of 6 × 50 kg each (3 bombs per launcher under the wing).
The Barbieri launcher had been designed by the Romanian engineer Dumitru Barbieri, who worked at IAR Brașov and the system had initially equipped the Potez-25 biplane aircraft since 1931.
The planes were also IAR-37, but transformed into light bombing planes, by mounting under each plane three bomb racks for bombs of 50 kg each, provided with centrifugal warheads with instantaneous explosion (percussion). The IAR 37 was therefore loaded with only 6 bombs of 50 kg. - The launchers were connected to a reticular sight, which was at the same time a "IAR-Barbieri" bomb launcher (after the inventor's name).


When the IAR-39 biplane aircraft were designed, they were equipped with IAR-Viziru type bomb launchers. , designed by engineer Gogu Viziru. These launchers had a bomb launch capacity of 24 × 12 kg (12 bombs under each wing).


IAR-Brasov anti-infantry grenades multiple rack under IAR-39 - 5 grenades in tandem per column , 12 columns under each wing. Total per aircraft 24 cassettes with 120 anti-personnel grenades
Photo was published in the magazine Aripi Românești in 1943 and SMP comes from the Military Propaganda Service.
IAR-Brasov anti-infantry grenades multiple rack under IAR-39 - 5 grenades in tandem per column ,.jpg
The grenades were delayed, with a warhead that lasted a maximum of 15 seconds until the explosion"
 
Hello Dreamk!

I know where you have this info, unfortunately it has quite some errors, if you check that Facebook post where it first originally appeared, there`s a guy in the comments that notes the mistakes ;)

As far as I have been able to narrow it down, things are in the following way:

IAR-Barbieri launchers (12x12kg PuW bombs per launcher, one launcher per wing and one launcher under fuselage) were mounted on IAR-Potez 25. Note that this launcher has two rows each, meaning a capacity of 12 bombs per launcher, but I highly doubt the plane could take off with fully loaded racks. Also, i`ve been told that these could be adapted to use French 25kg bombs, but I have no hard evidence on that. In most photos though, the middle launcher was removed.

Potez09a.jpg

IAR-?? launchers (1x50kg PuW bomb per launcher, 6 launchers per wing) were mounted on the IAR-37 only. Although there are 6 launchers per wing (1 towards the root, a group of 3 mid-span and a group of 2 towards the tip) I believe these were used as alternative positions, as a full load would total 600kg. I`ve never seen photos with more than 3 bombs per wing.

97357757_3011759548879405_7048090209463828480_n.jpgbomba-50-kg-pe-iar-37.jpg

IAR-Barbieri(?) launchers (6x12kg PuW bombs per launcher, 2 launchers per wing) were mounted on:
-SET-7k
-IAR-38 (later series?)
-IAR-39
This launcher is identical to the ones from the IAR-Potez 25, but having just the front row. The SET only had one launcher per wing.

98031532_3015759425146084_8477393800166113280_n.jpg12188168_913077795428260_976835424730189030_o.jpgCapture.JPGCapture3.JPG

On this (second?) type of (Barbieri?) launcher, it seems there was also the possibility to mount some cluster bomb cassettes, that could drop submunitions.
Data on these cluster cassettes is yet very scarce, limiting to that one single photo you posted (I will re-attach it below). Based on my visual estimations, each cassette could hold 6 "large" type of submunitions. It`s possible that for the "small" type of submunitions, the shape of the cassette was different.
97960548_3014369135285113_1403863232392724480_o.jpg

There were two types of submunitions: a "large" and a "small" version. Both use the same fuze marked MAM 1-39T, although with a longer detonator for the "small" version. Both have pre-fragmented bodies on the exterior and don`t have a very aerodynamic shape, resembling more a grenade than a classic streamlined shape as in the SD-2 , etc. The "large" version is a short and stubby cylinder, measuring 8x9.5cm, the "small" version is long and skinny, measuring aprox. 5x15cm.
Based on the very limited information I could draw from the few photos I have, the fuze had a simple instantaneous, impact system, IMO inspired from the RG-34 grenades. We can clearly see two square slots for a safety pin, and another two round holes, diametrally opposed, with what I believe would be a safety pin that shears on impact. There is not enough space for a delay system in this fuze.


DSC00114.jpgDSC00116.jpgDSC00117.jpgИзображение 045.jpgИзображение 048.jpgИзображение 046.jpg

Please note that except the IAR-39, with which we have photo evidence of, no other planes seemed to use these launchers in combat use, and this only in the early stages of the war.
Also, I have no data on any launchers made by Grossu-Viziru, maybe it`s just a confusion since he designed a special articulated turret for all of the aircraft mentioned in this post.
This is all the information I have on these launchers and submunitions. In the absence of proper documentation, these are merely my educated guesses, feel free to come up with other interpretations of the cassettes and fuze systems.
 
Irod Hi! thanks a lot for the info.
One remark:
The Bomb racks shown in the first photograph on the Potez 25 are the regular French original bomb racks of this plane - I'll try to scan you a drawing from the original manual of the plane - They are a development of the Michelin type 4 bomb racks of ww1, often seen on Breguet 14. To the best of my knowledge, they were only used on the Potez 25 (wings and fuselage) and, more rarely, under the wings of the Breguet XIX.
Each could indeed accommodate 2 rows of 10kg or 12kg bombs (one row behind the other) or a single row of 25kg bombs. The Poles produced an improved version, much less cumbersome, for their own Potez 25.
The IAR-Barbieri seem therefore to be the 6x12kg bomb racks, (or two units of 6x12kg, set side by side to obtain a row of 12x12kg) shown on the following photos, mostly flushed into the wings. A similar design was often seen on PZL planes (though it may have been in fact a Czech design, originally) such as the PZL 23 and PZL 37.

BTW I found a photo of a IAR 80/81 equipped with the Romanian designed bombs:
On the left the plane with American pattern bombs under fuselage and wings, on the right the plane with Romanian pattern bombs under fuselage and wings (on notes the difference being the tails of these bombs)
Image225 1.jpg Romanian Design Bombs IAR 80-81.jpg

An interesting point is that on the photo at the right the Romanian design bombs seem to be equipped with the M-103 nose fuze (or a copy of it) which equipped the M series bombs. This raises the question whether what is seen on the remnants of these bombs is a nose fuze or rather a nose plug with lateral lugs for vertical suspension in the bomb cell-racks of the He111 (the IAR79, at the difference of the original Italian SM79B, was equipped with Swiatecki type horizontal bomb and could accommodate US designed bombs instead of French designed bombs without much problem. Same thing for the Bloch 210).
 
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One remark:
The Bomb racks shown in the first photograph on the Potez 25 are the regular French original bomb racks of this plane - I'll try to scan you a drawing from the original manual of the plane - They are a development of the Michelin type 4 bomb racks of ww1, often seen on Breguet 14. To the best of my knowledge, they were only used on the Potez 25 (wings and fuselage) and, more rarely, under the wings of the Breguet XIX.
Each could indeed accommodate 2 rows of 10kg or 12kg bombs (one row behind the other) or a single row of 25kg bombs. The Poles produced an improved version, much less cumbersome, for their own Potez 25.
The IAR-Barbieri seem therefore to be the 6x12kg bomb racks, (or two units of 6x12kg, set side by side to obtain a row of 12x12kg) shown on the following photos, mostly flushed into the wings. A similar design was often seen on PZL planes (though it may have been in fact a Czech design, originally) such as the PZL 23 and PZL 37.
.

I don`t want to contradict you, as I said before i`m not very knowledgeable on airdropped munitions (I`m mostly into small arms and artillery), but i`m almost sure the racks from the first picture are the first pattern of IAR-Barbieri as they are described in the technical note. Unfortunately I only have these three photos, but it`s sufficient to see that there is a set of three launchers, which is what we see in the photo. Maybe it`s a copy of the French rack? I don`t know yet. If you can find some photos with the Michelin racks, we could compare the features.

131890816_709249706667770_8731301351440325218_n.jpg78226494_2522937971094005_7986801139305676800_n.jpg79432460_2522961554424980_5697637429427568640_n.jpg

BTW I found a photo of a IAR 80/81 equipped with the Romanian designed bombs:
On the left the plane with American pattern bombs under fuselage and wings, on the right the plane with Romanian pattern bombs under fuselage and wings (on notes the difference being the tails of these bombs)

I have both photos at a slightly better resolution. Here you go, the photo with the Romanian bombs. Please note that the central, 250kg bomb has a nose fuze and also a base fuze that i have yet to ID.
42828352_285315485527025_248139944525037568_o.jpg

An interesting point is that on the photo at the right the Romanian design bombs seem to be equipped with the M-103 nose fuze (or a copy of it) which equipped the M series bombs. This raises the question whether what is seen on the remnants of these bombs is a nose fuze or rather a nose plug with lateral lugs

It is a nose plug / adapter / booster gaine , whatever you wanna call it, and the fuze is not M-103. Here is the fuse, but I have not been able to ID it or find if it`s copied from something else (except the fact that it has an arming vane, it doesn`t resemble the M-103 in any way).

vlcsnap-error568.jpg

The lugs are 100% for vertical suspension as you can see in this scene. They are loaded into a He-111.

vlcsnap-error246.jpgvlcsnap-error427.jpg
 
Thanks a lot Vince, yes it seems to be a Mk. VII, not just from the vane shape, but the adaptors in my two bomb fragments march the thread and lower fuze shape. I will make a sketch some day....
Also, I looked at the diagram with the Mk. V and I recognized some parts from the primer that were found together with my fragments (it was a bomb drop practice area). So yes, it seems you are correct with the Mk. V as well!
 
Irod Hi!

These photographs are exceptional and eye-opening! Thank you very much for uploading them.

The pictures of the Barbieri indeed enable to understand the differences with the French and Polish bomb racks, its filiation and what stands behind its development. Fascinating!

The Original Potez 25 was an observation and liaison aircraft (A2 category) equipped only with a vertical F 12x10 vomb rack (Alkan Lesourd box type bomb rack for 2 rows side by side of vertically mounted 10kg bombs) inside the fuselage.
The bombing version (B2 category) developed for exportation included the possibility of mounting a Michelin bomb rack under each wings.
The original Michelin bomb rack of ww1 fame could accommodate 6 x 10kg French bombs in 2 rows, one behind the other, but this was often considered as not safe and only the front row of 6 bombs was mounted. In the case of 12kg PuW bombs, the length of the bombs prevented even to think about mounting 2 bombs one behind the other, so only the front row configuration was possible with these.
The next step was therefore the development of the Michelin No5 bomb rack - a modular bomb rack fitting 2 rows of 2x10kg or 2x12kg bombs, one behind the other, long enough to fit even the PuW bombs.
The Potez 25B2 used by the Poles had a set of 3 Michelin No5 juxtaposed side by side under each wing, enabling to fit 12x12kg PuW bombs under each wings.
The Michelin bomb racks were often installed upon a board for a better repartition of the weights under the wings.
The Potex 25 TOE included a set of Michelin bomb racks under each wing for 12x10kg or 12x12kg bombs, and a further third set under the fuselage, for and additional set of 12x10kg or 12x12kg bombs

In each case this demanded the aircraft to be especially designed for taking this bombs racks with he necessary wiring under the wings.

Here comes the Barbieri with offers a smart. clever and efficient way to retrofit ANY version of the aircraft with such a possibility of bomb carrying - probably the first ever implementation of the concept of modular armament kit - The wiring is integral to the kit and can be easily passed to the observer-bomber cabin through one of the various holes under the fuselage of the plane (such as the camera hole) and the installation is much faster than the connecting the individual wings wirings to each Michelin bomb rack sub-unit.

ww1 Michelin bomb rack
ww1 French Bombes Michelin.gif
Michelin No5 drawing, a triple unit fit under a Polish machine (without supporting board) and the basic unit
Potez TOE 3.jpg Potez 25 A2 Polish 5.jpg Potez 25 TOE 4.jpg
Potez 25 TOE Installation
Potez 25 TOE 1.jpg Potez 25 TOE 2.jpg

If already speaking of bomb racks, do you know whether the initial batch of SM79B acquired by Romania were equipped with the original Italian vertical bomb racks? I know that at some time they were fitted with 2 French vertical bomb racks (box type) in the fuselage (32x10 / 8x50). (The IAR/JRS79B were equipped from the beginning with French model Swiatecky type horizontal bomb racks)
Were Italian produced bombs used by Romania? I seem to remember having seen a photograph of a Romanian CANT Z-510 flying boat with a pair of Italian hydrostatic bombs but I may be mistaken.
 
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Thank you very much for the information! I really appreciate it!

I don`t know of any Italian bombs being produced or used by Romania.
Regarding your question on SM-79B, according to the technical note from this aircraft, both the SM-79B and the JIS and JRS-79B (Italian- and Romanian-produced variants of the SM-79B with Jumo 211Da engines) had horizontal bomb racks, although I don`t know exactly the model. If you can ID the launcher and the bombs used, I would be very happy to learn something new.

DSC07421.JPG132430852_734418073867710_937383513354001508_n.jpg

Below, attached a photo of a JIS with the crew and a 100? kg bomb. Any input on the nationality, model, etc. of the bomb would be appreciated.
resize_of_savoia_marchetti_jis79b_bombowiec.jpg


Again, based on the technical note, it seems that there was the possibility to attach 4x launchers for bigger bombs below the fuselage, at the wing root. You have already posted this image before, but I am adding it for the sake of better following of the discussion.

DSC07419.JPG

And a couple stills from a bombing raid video, where some bomb outlines can be seen. Again, i`d appreciate it if you could ID the bombs in cause.

vlcsnap-error091.jpgvlcsnap-error422.jpgvlcsnap-error905.jpg
 
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Irod Hi!
yes, The bomb you see besides the SM79B is a French 100 or 200kg bomb - I would say 200kg by size comparison with the height of the seated/kneeling soldiers.
This drawing is of a 200kg bomb initial production model.
200kg.gif
in 1938 a new model was introduced with an annular stabilization tail ring instead of the square one - both models co-existed in the units during ww2
200kg French Bombs WWII Photo-.JPG
Interestingly, the Romanian seem to have received a batch of the most recent French bombs with the annular ring fins reinforcement
Annotation 2019-10-31 085852 Bombes Francaises pour JRS79B Roumain .jpg
The IAR 79 were equipped with 2 different kind of bomb racks:
1) Either 2 box type Alkan Lesourd F type (either F8x50 or F32x10) one behind the other (generally 2x F8x50, the French 50kg DT/ DT2 bomb was a preferred weapon, a very efficient bomb which design and production began at the end of ww1 and remained in service with the French Air Force till the early 1960s!, begin even produced by the French Vichy authorities for the German Luftwaffe in WW2)
Annotation 2019-11-10 095849 2 Vertcial bomb Racks type V8x50 32x10.jpg such bomb racks equipped also the Romanian Potez 25 and Potez 543 (though it was generally the F12x10 that was mounted in these planes rather than the 8x50, as 50-100-200kg bombs were generally mounted on external GPU on these planes)
2) either a vertical bomb rack.
Annotation 2019-11-10 095949 Two vertical bomb racks Type S 5x100.jpg
I always thought that this was a French type S bomb rack as such a bomb rack equipped on the Romanian Bloch 210, but the photo you uploaded shows a typical US oscillating bomb shackle of the type used on the B17 (originally the pre war Boeing 299) This is really interesting!!

The French bomb rack, developed on the Swiatecky patent existed in various version 4x200 5x200 5x100 7x100, which were in fact the same bomb rack but with the oscillating bomb shackles placed at different height on the bomb rack "scales".
Fig-135.--3-.jpg
The US bomb rack had similar scales but the bombs were attached through individual oscillating bomb shackles:
Bomb_Bay_of_Boeing_Model_299.jpg US bomb shackle 1941 Screenshot 2020-12-23 065913.jpg US bomb shackle 1941 Screenshot 2020-12-23 065818.jpg

The Bomb dropped by the IAR79 on the movie captures are most probably French 50kg bombs (the rear of the fins seems slightly rounded and there seems to have a reinforcement between the fins, the general shape is also consistent) Such bombs were frequent in Romania:
9_32 (1).jpg

BTW do you have other photographs of Romanian Potez 63 or Potez 543 or Bloch 210 with bombs underwings or under fuselage, or with bombs nearby these planes?
 
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Thanks a lot for the information and Happy New Year!

Unfortunately i don`t have any other photos or information (with the Potez planes or with any others), when I will find more I will post here.

The photo with the technician screwing the fuzes on the bombs is quite late war, after Romania switched sides. It was taken in September 1944 on the Sibiu airfield (or it could be at Balomir, but definitely Sept 1944).
 
Some more info:
The Bomb shacles installed on the Romanian S79BR/JIS79B/JRS79B bombers were Polish Swiatecki Bomb racks. Their installation caused a delay in the delivery of the original, Italian produced, batch of aircraft as the installation of this bomb rack was a demand of the Romanians in 1937, who did not pay attention to the fact that it was not homologued in Italy. They had to wait for the completion of the homologation process in 1938.

2 such horizontal bomb racks were installed on the Romanian S79BR/JIS79B/JRS79B. It seems that they were installed instead of the original Italian bomb rack on the the left one being on the center axis of the fuselage and the right one on its left.
At least the Brasov produced JRS79B (there is no certitude for the Italian produced aircraft) were also equipped with a lateral vertical bomb rack on the left side of these bomb racks. This vertical bomb rack, designed as Barbieri vertical 10x50, seems to have been made differently from the regular french type 10x50 (2 parallel rows of 5 cells for 50kg bombs) but rather 2 sets of 5 cells installed in tandem (overal length a little more than 2 meters).

The JRS79B nr.122-127 were also equipped withtwo TGPU bomb racks under the roots of wing (one under each wing) for carrying 500kg bombs.

An unsolved issue is the delivery of aviation grenades by such planes, repeatedly reported by the ARR pilots. These reports mention specifically 1.7kg grenades - meaning Italian made spezzone (the Romanian avaition grenades were much lighter) . I have been unable to identify which kind of installation was devised to deliver them.

It is more than probable that the SM79B delivered to Iraq were not equipped with such a bomb rack (the first aircraft being delivered to them on 1937, thr remaining 4 in 1938) . Whether these Iraqi planes were equipped with Italian internal bomb racks or only the external bomb racks can be discuted. In 1941 the RAf operational reports mention only the use of 112lb British made bombs by these planes. I have been unable to find any mention of delivery of Italian bombs to Iraq though this cannot be excluded as they also bought Breda 65 which were equipped with specific Itlian bomb racks.

All additional information wuill be more than wellcome
It appears that
 
Hello Dreamk,

Sorry but i can`t add anything to the JIS/JRS subject as i don`t have sufficient knowledge on the subject.

Regarding our initial discussion on the subject, I have instead found some new data regarding the American bombs. There seems to have been an interest in 1937 from MAM and IRMC (Intreprinderea Română Mecanică și Chimică - Romanian Mechanical and Chemical Company - today UM Mija, a Romarm subsidiary) to establish a contract for bombs with United States Ordnance Engineers Inc. The document mentions that the "the bombs were to be partially manufactured by USOE and completed in Romania by IRMC". Later the contract was modified to include equipment for manufacturing of bombs in Romania, and a complete forge plant was produced and was ready for shipping to Romania but this eventually never received the export license to Romania. The document then proceeds to talk about the lawsuit and legal implications of sequestering such a valuable asset and i will not get into detail on that, but the whole information can be read here:


I would like to highlight that although the forge was never delivered, the fact that we see US-style bombs used early in the war is an indication that at least part of the contract was honored and some American bomb subassemblies were shipped and assembled in Romania. A document from 1940 provided by Horia Stoica mentions American 50kg bombs (i assume these are 100lb M30), 225kg bombs (again, assumed to be 500 lb M43?) and a 9kg incendiary bomb (phosphorous, corresponds to 20lb but i have not found anything to match). I have attached the table extract for the above mentioned items and another photo with some (dummy?) bombs.

351530570_1638347276679493_6584574820052749283_n.jpg430758253_772616054921700_1289361186877964563_n.jpg
 
Thanks a lot for this information.
It was a common practice in the 1930s for the US bombs manufacturers (Lake Erie, Federal labs etc..) to sell the bombs empty and the filling to be done in teh country of delivery - the explosive being either locally produced or sold to them by the DuPont company.
The 9kg phosphorous may well be this bomb produced by the Federal laboratories and although not adopted by the US defense establishment, was sold to various countries , mainly in south America - this is a 20-25lb bomb that could be filled locally in accordance to needs.
best guess is 20-25lb. Noting the history of Federal Labs, I suspect 1930s experimental CW IMG...jpgFedera Laboratories bomb.jpg

another possibility is this chemical bomb (could be charged with White Phophorous or gas) that was also produced under license in Greece by the Hellenic Powder and cartridges Company - another us model that was not officially adopted.
Here's the drawing from the Greek catalogue
25lb chemical bomb Screenshot 2024-03-06 101858.jpg
 
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