Welcome to the Inert Ordnance Collectors.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    3,982
    Thanks
    399
    Thanked 919 Times in 533 Posts
    Sorry, I glossed over that.
    ___HAZ/
    _____/ORD Hazardous Ordnance Recognition
    ________Saving Lives Through Education

  2. #12
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,295
    Thanks
    1,230
    Thanked 1,304 Times in 583 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by M8owner View Post
    Rich - May I request that you show pictures of your two pzgr 43 projectiles for comparison?
    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...erman-FLAK40-s

  3. #13
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Meon Valley, UK
    Posts
    584
    Images
    83
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 167 Times in 80 Posts
    The thread SG500 posted, never actually concluded whether my placement of those projectiles in the flak40 case was valid or not.

    So, We know the Jagdtiger used separately loaded rounds (due to space restrictions inside the vehicle) as the mouth of the PJK44 case is 165mm and the projectile is 128mm. Clearly no need for cannelures then on the PzGr43 projectile if it was exclusively for the Jagdtiger.

    The 12,8cm PaK40 (and Sturer Emil) etc had no such space restriction, so did they in fact use single piece rounds like I posted? It certainly makes sense the the PaK40 (and Jagdtiger) would have been given APCBC projectile for antitank work.

    ....and this left the older style APC round with the FLaK crews in case they came under attack.

    unless I'm corrected otherwise, I would assume the rounds for the FLaK40 and PaK40 were interchangeable, but preference given to the PaK 40 for APCBC

    i feel a waffen revue search coming on.
    Last edited by RichardB; 29th August 2015 at 07:40 AM.


  4. #14
    Ordnance Approved
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    584
    Thanks
    829
    Thanked 381 Times in 217 Posts
    If You search the waffenrevue Nr 71 there is a reference to the use of 12,8cm Pzgr 43 with 12,8cm Flak 40.
    My LDv 4402/7 and HDv 481/581 are from 1942 so the change is probably not listed there yet.

    I think PAK 40 is a typing error
    The Waffenrevue Nr. 50 and 51 describes the development of the guns.

    Bob
    I
    any live or recovered ordnance shown in my posts was dealt with by trained EOD personnel

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Nabob For This Useful Post:

    Sibaman (21st October 2016)

  6. #15
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Meon Valley, UK
    Posts
    584
    Images
    83
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 167 Times in 80 Posts
    Hi Bob,
    You're quite right I meant PaK44.
    interestingly I've now found photos showing the FLaK40 using fixed single piece rounds... (With a very strong chap doing the loading, as they're not light) so clearly the projectiles would have had cannelures.

    from what I can tell, the PaK44 and PJK44 were Krupp derivatives of the orIginal Rheinmetal FLaK40 but both used separately loaded rounds without the need for cannelures, I wonder if it was simpler just to have one design of projectile with the possibility of using it in the FLaK40 if they so wanted.

    I have the Waffen Revues you mention, so I'll search tonight, but see no reason why the APCBC projectile was not intended to be used in the FLaK40 case

    rich


  7. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicagoland USA
    Posts
    112
    Thanks
    40
    Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts
    I think I am noticing a pattern on these fakes as another one has just shown up. All marked "elg" with the day changing on the date, month either 2 or 3, and always same year. Maybe he dated each fake sequentially (awfully nice of him)?
    Also again, no markings on the bottom. L-R newest one, then 2 others previously posted above, then one from another forum.

    gunbroker1.jpg12_8cmmarkings.jpg128mm%20reproduction%20markings.jpgL55%202.jpg

    Here are some more views of the latest. Looks like copper drive bands - maybe someone changed them? Haven't seen a fake with base plate - might be original or was he faking those too?
    gunbroker2.jpggunbroker3.jpggunbroker4.jpg
    Last edited by jeff w; 7th September 2016 at 04:36 PM.

  8. #17
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Meon Valley, UK
    Posts
    584
    Images
    83
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 167 Times in 80 Posts
    Bob is correct,
    For anyone interested, I looked up the pages in waffen revue 71 that mention the munitions used with the 12,8cm flak 40, and it does list both the 12,8cm Pzgr, and the 12,8cm Pzgr 43 projectiles... Which I guess is kinda obvious as why else would the 12,8cm Pzgr 43 have cannelures for sole use in a pjk44 case whose mouth is 165mm dia.

    So while the 12,8cm Flak40 is a single piece fixed round, the Jagdtiger's 12,8cm PJK44 is two piece loading, requiring only one person to load, but the flak40 with Pzgr must surely require assistance from two people when loading... Else one strong brute
    Last edited by RichardB; 17th September 2016 at 08:33 PM.


  9. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 42 Times in 11 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardB View Post
    Bob is correct,
    For anyone interested, I looked up the pages in waffen revue 71 that mention the munitions used with the 12,8cm flak 40, and it does list both the 12,8cm Pzgr, and the 12,8cm Pzgr 43 projectiles... Which I guess is kinda obvious as why else would the 12,8cm Pzgr 43 have cannelures for sole use in a pjk44 case whose mouth is 165mm dia.

    So so while the 12,8cm Flak40 is fixed round unlike the Jagdtiger 12,8cm PJK44 two piece loading, the flak40 with Pzgr must surely require assistance from two people when loading... Else one strong brute
    Some pictures to enrich the post, also note how funny is soldiers holding a 128mm round, and soldiers holding 75mm sherman rounds


    2n0lekh.jpg1598916.jpg1598920.jpgwwii0080.jpgH.Dv.119-419 12,8 cm Pak80 -3.jpglw35071_1_1.jpg

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jose__ For This Useful Post:

    HAZORD (17th September 2016), Nabob (19th September 2016), RichardB (17th September 2016)

  11. #19
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Meon Valley, UK
    Posts
    584
    Images
    83
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 167 Times in 80 Posts
    All,
    Just so you're aware, there is another fake about to sell. I wasnt able to post a reply on Wehrmacht Awards to warn the seller and potential buyers

    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=914462

    ROUND LYING DOWN IN FRONT:
    16) Pz.Sfl. 12,8 cm K40 ''Sturer Emil'' / FlaK 40 AP - $1200
    DSCN5446.jpg


  12. #20
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    852
    Images
    21
    Thanks
    245
    Thanked 305 Times in 121 Posts
    The 12,8 cm in the first tread is an original one, the 12,8 cm in the other post is 100% a copy, made in a Hungarian factory that in the days of the cold war made projectiles, the man who made these was an American guy . this was about 15-years ago, I have been talking with this man and his filosofie was that, in those times you could find many flak cases for the 12,8 cm but no projectiles so he ask the guys in the factory to produce 20 projectiles,. 10 and 10 and they did
    The fake projectiles are not stamped on the base, the picture with the tracer unit is interesting only the little tracer element is original the rest is fake.,
    Regards
    Ben
    Last edited by Fjordhouse; 23rd September 2017 at 08:21 PM.

    Any Live or dug ordnance shown in my posts has been dealt accordingly with by fully trained EOD personel

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top