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20mm (2cm) Pzgr 40 Projectiles
- Thread starter M8owner
- Start date
Thank you, Gentlemen. Those are both quite helpful.
Orpheus - Is there picture in your manual of the projectile that I have? Your image is of the "long" variant - I believe.
My plan is to display these in shadow boxes mounted on the wall with the "proof" that they are real displayed behind the projectile. I will also add an X-ray image.
Orpheus - Is there picture in your manual of the projectile that I have? Your image is of the "long" variant - I believe.
My plan is to display these in shadow boxes mounted on the wall with the "proof" that they are real displayed behind the projectile. I will also add an X-ray image.
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Does anyone know the history/service use of these? Were they designed for the Luftwaffe (ground attack aircraft) or Heer (pzII/armored cars)? Who actually received them?
I'm guessing the "41" in there is the date... just in time for Barbarossa...??? Were there any different dates?
I'm guessing the "41" in there is the date... just in time for Barbarossa...??? Were there any different dates?
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Hi Jeff,
I'm by no means a Luftwaffe expert, but I've never seen the 2cm Pzgr40 used in any other case than the S18-1000 long Solothurn (20x138 B) , and my understanding is that the Luftwaffe tended to use the cannons such as the MG151 as compared to the S18-1000 they were lighter, had higher rate of fire and far less prone to jamming which would be critical factors for air to ground. The 10x Pzgr40's Steve found I can only assume were from a 10 round magazine for the Kwk30/38 which I believe only used 5,10 & 20 round mags, due to jamming issues.
Ill do some more research but to my knowledge they were only used in the Heer, Panzer II (Kwk30 & Kwk38) and Sd.Kfz 234, 222 etc, armoured cars. Whether or not magazines were supplied to Flak38 (FlakPanzer Ostwind, Wirblewind etc) units for AT usage I also don't know.
If anyone has more specific info on usage, please post.
Rich
I'm by no means a Luftwaffe expert, but I've never seen the 2cm Pzgr40 used in any other case than the S18-1000 long Solothurn (20x138 B) , and my understanding is that the Luftwaffe tended to use the cannons such as the MG151 as compared to the S18-1000 they were lighter, had higher rate of fire and far less prone to jamming which would be critical factors for air to ground. The 10x Pzgr40's Steve found I can only assume were from a 10 round magazine for the Kwk30/38 which I believe only used 5,10 & 20 round mags, due to jamming issues.
Ill do some more research but to my knowledge they were only used in the Heer, Panzer II (Kwk30 & Kwk38) and Sd.Kfz 234, 222 etc, armoured cars. Whether or not magazines were supplied to Flak38 (FlakPanzer Ostwind, Wirblewind etc) units for AT usage I also don't know.
If anyone has more specific info on usage, please post.
Rich
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Hi Rich - your reply makes sense.
I was just perusing the British pamphlet No. 7 and I notice they refer to the round as the "Solothurn S.A. Cartridge". In the same pamphlet other German cartridges are referred to as either PAK or KWK. The American manuals always refer to German 20mm as Mauser or Oerlikon - only referring to it as Solothurn when referring specifically to the anti-tank rifle. Do most British wartime documents generalize all German 20mm and give it the generic term "Solothurn"?
What do you think of the theory that these were produced out of a requirement for more effective Solothurn anti-tank rifle ammunition - with that being its primary deployment?
The pamphlet is dated 1943 based on ammunition captured in the desert where the Solothurn anti-tank rifle saw widespread use. Note too that the Solothurn anti-tank rifle used only a 10 round magazine. Also the production dates of the ammunition seems to coincide with the deployment of the Solothurn anti-tank rifle.
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Hi Jeff,
Ill stress this would be guess work, but the 20x138 cartridge was used by a variety of weapons, from the Swiss S18/1000 ATR in German hands to the KwK & FLaK 30/38 or Lahti and probably others too
However, as I've only ever seen 2cm Pzgr.40s with AUX (Polte Magdeburg), WaA markings and 1940/41 dated, It seems likely the only country using Pzgr.40 was Germany (possibly the Fins too) and since they were on the offensive across Europe at that period, it would make sense to me, to up-gun their more mobile (than Infantry or tanks) armoured cars e.g. Sdkfz 222 in Reconnaissance or Anti-Mechnanised units. Having said that, the projectile was lighter than the standard 2cm AP (105g versus 130-140g), so arguably more usable in a rifle for small tank hunting team due to less recoil?
If anyone has some facts rather than my guesswork, it would be interesting to know.
Rich
Ill stress this would be guess work, but the 20x138 cartridge was used by a variety of weapons, from the Swiss S18/1000 ATR in German hands to the KwK & FLaK 30/38 or Lahti and probably others too
However, as I've only ever seen 2cm Pzgr.40s with AUX (Polte Magdeburg), WaA markings and 1940/41 dated, It seems likely the only country using Pzgr.40 was Germany (possibly the Fins too) and since they were on the offensive across Europe at that period, it would make sense to me, to up-gun their more mobile (than Infantry or tanks) armoured cars e.g. Sdkfz 222 in Reconnaissance or Anti-Mechnanised units. Having said that, the projectile was lighter than the standard 2cm AP (105g versus 130-140g), so arguably more usable in a rifle for small tank hunting team due to less recoil?
If anyone has some facts rather than my guesswork, it would be interesting to know.
Rich
