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Help identifying an engraved name (maybe dutch?)
- Thread starter butterfly
- Start date
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Trying to research this piece it is military but not ordnance.
Hendrik Everhard Hoving is a name that I have come across that could fit the piece itself, however there are issues in the match.
the engraving looks like 'Honing', however tracing it with my finger it maybe possible that it is 'Hoving', with the formation of the I . Also is the H a 'H' or possible 'K' ?
the other issue is the middle part which looks like 'ele' - was there any abreviations for the name Everhard in dutch, nicknames or similar - or am I simply trying to make something fit that doesnt. It could also be 'de' but the d part is not closed up as I would have expected.
indeed is the first letter an 'H'.
I've been looking at this far too long, and will be seeing fairies and goblins next............all help appreciated. It would just be nice for it to be looked on with 'fresh eyes'.
concensus of opinion would be great.
Kev
Hendrik Everhard Hoving is a name that I have come across that could fit the piece itself, however there are issues in the match.
the engraving looks like 'Honing', however tracing it with my finger it maybe possible that it is 'Hoving', with the formation of the I . Also is the H a 'H' or possible 'K' ?
the other issue is the middle part which looks like 'ele' - was there any abreviations for the name Everhard in dutch, nicknames or similar - or am I simply trying to make something fit that doesnt. It could also be 'de' but the d part is not closed up as I would have expected.
indeed is the first letter an 'H'.
I've been looking at this far too long, and will be seeing fairies and goblins next............all help appreciated. It would just be nice for it to be looked on with 'fresh eyes'.
concensus of opinion would be great.
Kev
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
thank you for the comments.
Here are some photos of the rest of the item. It is engraved on the top and bottom. I think the engravings are quite significant, but I would also like to see what others make of them.
I am not familiar with dutch records, but is it possible to trace this person?
regards Kev
Here are some photos of the rest of the item. It is engraved on the top and bottom. I think the engravings are quite significant, but I would also like to see what others make of them.
I am not familiar with dutch records, but is it possible to trace this person?
regards Kev
Kev,
It should be possible to ID the owner completely, as the number 87214 is most likely the guys service number in the Dutch (or even Belgian) army.
My guess it's the Dutch army following the 'batavia' marking on the box...
Also the fact he served as (enlisted) sergeant pyrotechnician can narrow the search...
It should be possible to ID the owner completely, as the number 87214 is most likely the guys service number in the Dutch (or even Belgian) army.
My guess it's the Dutch army following the 'batavia' marking on the box...
Also the fact he served as (enlisted) sergeant pyrotechnician can narrow the search...
From the place names and the dates it would seem the chap was captured by the Japanese in the Dutch East Indies, and ended up in the PoW camp at Kanchanaburi - hence the "trench art" barbed wire fence engraving. Kanchanaburi had the main camps for organising PoW slave labour for the Thailand-Burma Railway, and is the site of the real-life Bridge on the Kwai river...
Tom.
Tom.
Attachments
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
I think you may well be right Tom. I was of a similar opinion, but its always better to hear it from someone else to confirm ones suspicions. Appreciated.
I can add a little more information which I obtained from the seller, though it is unfortunately limited.
It was bought from a lady who claimed it belonged to her Grandfathers brother. Both her Grandfather and his brother were said to be in the same concentration camp. Unfortunately his brother (to whom this box belonged) died. I have been told this was due to malnurishment and other diseases. ?? It was also listed as a tobacco tin, but again that was just pure speculation.
It would certainly be interesting to see if any records exist of this man.
many thanks for all the help so far and indeed for any further help
regards Kev
Close, but not exact -
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/7512054/DE KONING, BERNARD WILLEM
Closer still
https://oorlogsgravenstichting.nl/persoon/81786/henricus-cornelius-joannes-de-koning
TimG
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/7512054/DE KONING, BERNARD WILLEM
Closer still
https://oorlogsgravenstichting.nl/persoon/81786/henricus-cornelius-joannes-de-koning
TimG
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butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Thanks Tim, thats the closest one yet.
I wonder if anyone knows if the number on the tin refers to his army number or pow number?
is it 87214 or 87274 - I think the former, but again opinion welcome.
Kev
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
getting even closer Tim.
I have to say that experience has taught me not to take stories as gospel, proof is everything. So of course looking for him as a casualty is the first step. It could of course be that the name inscribed is the other brother, so it would also be worth checking any casualty as a secondary step to see if they had a brother. First things first though.
..........................................................
As there appears to be interst in this item, I will share another recent find. I bought a large amount of paperwork revovling around two brothers who died in WW2. The first brother Ernest was killed in action late June 1942 (exact date appears to vary) probably due to the fact that the troops were in full retreat at the time heading for El Alamein. He is in fact buried in El Alamein cemetery.
The second brother Stanley, was in the RAF and stationed in Singapore when the Japanese invaded. He was taken prisoner and died whilst prisoner on 9th April 1945 - he was working on the Sumatran railway at the time and is reported to have died of Beri-Beri.
I had not heard of the Sumatran railway before but it makes very sad reading. The final nail was hammered into the railway on August 15 1945, ironically the day that Japan surrendered. Not a single train ran on the tracks........the price 80,000 lives.
you can read more here if you are interested (Stanley is listed under Air Force list on this first link)
http://sumatrarailway.com/the-sumatra-railway/
you will see in this second link that the number of British deaths on the Sumatran railway amounted to 151 men out of the approximate 1,000 British workers.
http://www.usmm.org/duffylifedeath.html
here are just two pieces of paperwork from the large group, which includes letters home, telegrams, and other correspondence....
I have to say that experience has taught me not to take stories as gospel, proof is everything. So of course looking for him as a casualty is the first step. It could of course be that the name inscribed is the other brother, so it would also be worth checking any casualty as a secondary step to see if they had a brother. First things first though.
..........................................................
As there appears to be interst in this item, I will share another recent find. I bought a large amount of paperwork revovling around two brothers who died in WW2. The first brother Ernest was killed in action late June 1942 (exact date appears to vary) probably due to the fact that the troops were in full retreat at the time heading for El Alamein. He is in fact buried in El Alamein cemetery.
The second brother Stanley, was in the RAF and stationed in Singapore when the Japanese invaded. He was taken prisoner and died whilst prisoner on 9th April 1945 - he was working on the Sumatran railway at the time and is reported to have died of Beri-Beri.
I had not heard of the Sumatran railway before but it makes very sad reading. The final nail was hammered into the railway on August 15 1945, ironically the day that Japan surrendered. Not a single train ran on the tracks........the price 80,000 lives.
you can read more here if you are interested (Stanley is listed under Air Force list on this first link)
http://sumatrarailway.com/the-sumatra-railway/
you will see in this second link that the number of British deaths on the Sumatran railway amounted to 151 men out of the approximate 1,000 British workers.
http://www.usmm.org/duffylifedeath.html
here are just two pieces of paperwork from the large group, which includes letters home, telegrams, and other correspondence....
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H
Hoeksel
Guest
First Google hit: http://www.japansekrijgsgevangenkampen.nl/Java Party 9.htm
He served in the KNIL, so Dutch and not Belgium.
He served in the KNIL, so Dutch and not Belgium.
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Many thanks Hoeksel
I think searching from the Uk does not bring up the same results.
This is very interesting - so the number 87214 was his army service number?
the 'sgt art' means Sergeant Artillery?
.........so now there is the question of if he did indeed die in captivity.
it is also interesting to see that all three names listed as Koning left for Singapore on the same train (it may just be possible that one of those is indeed his brother?)
thanks again Kev
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H
Hoeksel
Guest
What I can gather is:
H. de Koning, KNIL petty officer, artillery, regimental number 87214, 2107 is the entry number for his train transport to Singapore dated 3-2-1943.
H. de Koning, KNIL petty officer, artillery, regimental number 87214, 2107 is the entry number for his train transport to Singapore dated 3-2-1943.
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Thank you Hoeksel ......this is very interesting with regards to both confirmation of the fact this is the right man, but also in respect of the date for transport to Singapore.
So to me it appears that the writing on the box is being written in order....... Bandoeng , Tjilatjap, Singapore , Thailand , Ban Pong, Tha Markham, Kanchanaburi
I will need to aquaint myself regarding the events leading up to Japanese occupation.
can anyone tell me what the job of a Sergt. Pyrotechnist would be?
thanks Kev
So to me it appears that the writing on the box is being written in order....... Bandoeng , Tjilatjap, Singapore , Thailand , Ban Pong, Tha Markham, Kanchanaburi
I will need to aquaint myself regarding the events leading up to Japanese occupation.
can anyone tell me what the job of a Sergt. Pyrotechnist would be?
thanks Kev
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
so now I have confirmation that this man worked on the Burma railway from this link - thanks to Hoeksel. Java party 9 which H de Koning was a part went from Java to Singapore aboard the ship Harugiku Maru 2. Party 9 consisted of 3188 dutch POW's and landed in Singapore on 18/1/43 then they were transferred to Changi Camp on the 19th........... within two weeks of landing they were all transported to Thailand to work on the Burma Railway.
http://www.japansekrijgsgevangenkampen.nl/Harugiku Maru 2.htm
this gives a list of the trains to leave Changi Camp destination Thailand...(look for JP 9 in the right hand column) there were a number of trains, I do not know which one he was on but it does give a number of accurate dates.
http://www.japansekrijgsgevangenkampen.nl/Changi-kamp 1943.htm
so now there are just a couple of questions that need to be answered, was this man one of those that died whilst working on the railway? and was his brother also with him? (it is now clear there was another man in the same party with the same surname, could this have been his brother?)
Kev
http://www.japansekrijgsgevangenkampen.nl/Harugiku Maru 2.htm
this gives a list of the trains to leave Changi Camp destination Thailand...(look for JP 9 in the right hand column) there were a number of trains, I do not know which one he was on but it does give a number of accurate dates.
http://www.japansekrijgsgevangenkampen.nl/Changi-kamp 1943.htm
so now there are just a couple of questions that need to be answered, was this man one of those that died whilst working on the railway? and was his brother also with him? (it is now clear there was another man in the same party with the same surname, could this have been his brother?)
Kev
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Kev',
Link relates to Henricus - http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/index/nt00425/e6ff1ea0-148f-102f-a8e2-0050569c51dd
TimG
Link relates to Henricus - http://www.gahetna.nl/collectie/index/nt00425/e6ff1ea0-148f-102f-a8e2-0050569c51dd
TimG
butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their involvment in this thread and my quest to find more out about this small object and the man it is connected to.
I can now confidently say that this man - H. de Koning - was sent to work on the Thai-Burma railway in January 1943
I have tried without success to further my research, but I cannot find any records giving either his first name or indeed whether he died or survived. Looking through the names shown on the Java-Party lists, it is clear that there were a number of men with the surname 'de Koning', so maybe it is possibe that he was interned with his brother. ........the search continues............
kind regards to all
Kev
I can now confidently say that this man - H. de Koning - was sent to work on the Thai-Burma railway in January 1943
I have tried without success to further my research, but I cannot find any records giving either his first name or indeed whether he died or survived. Looking through the names shown on the Java-Party lists, it is clear that there were a number of men with the surname 'de Koning', so maybe it is possibe that he was interned with his brother. ........the search continues............
kind regards to all
Kev