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  1. #1
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    Torpedo tail section ID.

    A little help needed for definite ID of this torpedo tail section. I (and others) believe this is the tail section of a English 18" airdropped torpedo made at the Royal Navy Torpedo Factory. Mostly steel with brass bits and the plate between the boayancy chamber and tail is bronze.
    Is there a way to define between the different models XII XIV XV XVII from the tail section alone?
    The marked number is R.N.T.F. - 217* (so modified 1 time), is there a possibility to trace back its origins to this number. Statistics I have seen give only 602 used in the 2ww maybe there where records kept?

    image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Defenint ID is made, careful inspection reaveled the model it is a 18" mk XII* number 217. So now drawings are welcome, so is further info about the number to where the torpedo was issued (if available).

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    Could also be a RNTF copy of a Whitehead torpedo made under license?

    Jason

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    Jason, I can't find any proof that this was a whitehead pattern, but I am not a expert in this field.

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    Is this the same one that was posted on IAA late last year? (looks the same)

    I came to the same conclusion that it belonged to a 18" aircraft torpedo as the reinforced propeller guard and rudder resembles the smaller 18" aircraft than the larger 21" submarine types.

    How did you conclude that it is a Mk XII* ? (There were 15 different Mks produced for the 18" aircraft by RNTF - I would be very interested if you have any information on this?)

    (my apologies as my interest is generally on the "other" end of a torpedo!)

    Here's one of the photo I came across when researching this last year.

    Jason,
    In the early years Whitehead and back then RL / RGF did indeed exchange "technological improvements" (i.e. counter- rotating propellers etc), but it is a very interesting question as to when this "arrangement" actually ceased - or did it?
    Whitehead died around 1905, his son John in 1902, Georg Hoyos was already dead by 1905 and the last person with any technical expertise - Capt. Gallway died in 1906.....the British government concerned that the business would fall into "unfriendly" ownership had encouraged both UK firms Vickers & Armstrong to invest equal shares etc.....that occur around 1907.
    This arrangement fell apart in 1914 as Austria grabbed the Fiume works and in 1915 when Italy joined into the war, the factory's manufacturing plant was basically moved some 40 miles to St.Polten.
    However it was of course a different story for the Weymouth factory, which was split away from the Fiume concern and registered as a separate company in 1907 as "Whitehead & Company" and of course building torpedoes for the Royal Navy............
    RNTF came into existence around ~1917, so one could speculate that the ongoing exchange and manufacturing occurred as all companies were collaborating in one way or another as all were either British firms /government and by 1917 as WW1 was still going, the demand for production would have been seek via any available manufacturing capacity.

    Cheers
    Drew
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    Last edited by Dronic69; 3rd March 2016 at 09:58 PM.

  7. #6
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    Hello Jason,

    The story to this torpedo tail before it came into my possesion is unknown (other then found while dredging), so maybe it is already researched. But not far enough, because I've seen markings on the tail that confirm its Id, if you are into ammo (like us) you know how stuff is marked so is this one. Maybe for the untrained eye this is not so obvious. Check out the attached pic then you can read your self XII* R.N.T.F. 271.
    The 18" mk XII (design 1935) came into service 1937 and stayed in use till the end of ww2. Nice to know should be when was the torpedo modified the * denotes this, and where did it go when it left the factory (units, planes, stocked). As this was a pricey bit of kit that needed servicing maybe there are records kept somewhere.

    image.jpeg Something strange with the pic on my Ipad/Iphone the photo is correct and on the desktop inverted? Hope you can read it.
    Last edited by Michel; 3rd March 2016 at 01:39 PM.

  8. #7
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    If yours is the same as this one posted on IAA:

    http://www.iaaforum.org/forum3/viewt...127184#p127184

    as it is an unusual coincidence that yours is marked "271" and the IAA was reported to be "217".......................typo?

    Your photo is not in the sharpest focus - I was actual hoping you had some documentation that highlighted the differences between the RNTF 18" MK tails

    Yes most RL /RGF and RNTF torpedoes are well marked, although it wasn't clear (to me anyway) from your #2 post how you determined it was a Mk XII* - whether there was a *key* physical construction point difference etc.
    Last edited by Dronic69; 3rd March 2016 at 09:54 PM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    Hello Jason,

    Something strange with the pic on my Ipad/Iphone the photo is correct and on the desktop inverted? Hope you can read it.
    Actually it is Drew,

    (Jason is the better looking cool dude)

    No wonder I couldn't read it..............OK looks better now!)

    Thanks
    Cheers
    Drew
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    Last edited by Dronic69; 3rd March 2016 at 09:47 PM.

  10. #9
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    Drew, it is the same (I think) he just got the numbers wrong and forgot the asterix * sign. There is also a just the number 271* mark but on the bottom part it is XII*. Sorry I have not got any documentation about the differences between models, the info on the net is very limited, I was hoping someone possesed the documention about this one. There is a instruction movie about this model.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweZK_ii8c4

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  12. #10
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    Super Interesting for sure! GREAT historical info on the relationship between Whitehead and RNTF, Drew! Its puzzling because I have identical Whitehead/RNTF manufactured gyroscopes up to WW2, both copies of the Whitehead.

    J

 

 
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