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Rare incendiary cannonball

mach1bang

Well-Known Member
A diver I Know found this in Plymouth sound,considering its been in saltwater for more than one century,it's in pretty
good condition,the leather pouches surrounding half the ball would have held the incendiary material,there's drawings of
this sort of thing in one of Hogg&Thurstons books on history of ammunition I think.But here's the real thing.
must be incredibly rare.
 

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Hello,

Very interesting, could you give dimensions ?

Is it possible to see a diagram ?

Regards
 
Hello,

Very interesting, could you give dimensions ?

Is it possible to see a diagram ?

Regards

The item is not mine,I took these photos about 6 months ago, but it is about 8 inches,20cm in diameter.
I don't have diagram to hand,would have to copy from book if I find one.
thanks for your interest.
Tim.
 
I think this is great. It could even be nearer 200 years old ? I know the drawings you mean in Hogg's book, I can't find mine atm. Do you know if it has been preserved ? It's likely to fall apart once it dries out. thanks for showing it.
 
It is a great piece, thank you for sharing the photo's of it. Is it as large as 8 inch diameter? A standard 32pdr cannonball is around 6 inch diameter, so if bigger would have been fired from something much larger.
I would imagine the best thing would be to keep it in a tub/tank of fresh water. the only way to properly remove all the salt from the metal is using electrolysis - and I wouldn't like the idea of placing an incendiary projectile in a tank and passing an electrical current through it! :)
 
A very nice piece. This type of construction I have never seen before. Are the tubes that can be seen metal ? Are there small projectiles inside the tubes ? Is the skin of the ball iron or some other material. The size points to a mortar round.
Thanks for showing this rarity.
Bellifortis.
 
The owner did keep it in a tank of fresh water for how long I don't know.
The casing is iron or steel,but the front spherical part is a lighter construction than the sides the casing seems to be a 3 part construction.
The so called tubes are made of leather as mentioned in original post.
If you look at 3rd photo from left you can see that it is cylindrical and not quite a sphere.
It must have been loaded a certain way round to fit barrel and with the incendiary filling facing the charge.So the tubes would face
rear and conical part forward.The powder charge would then ignite the incendiary filling on firing.At least that's my understanding of how it would work.
I don't know if the brass screw in part with square key hole is a fuze for an explosive element,or a filling plug.
Hope this helps.
Tim.
 
Hi Tim,
very interesting. But, I do not understand it's function. Looking at the fotos I discern a dishshaped metal bottom, above this a metal ring and a thincased (you write iron) topcase in which the brass fitting is centered. The top is too thin to hold up to the very high percussive pressure of the powder charge. So I assume that the projectile is loaded strong bottom down. The brass fitting must be some type of fuselike construction that transfers the fire of the gun charge to the inside of the projectile. The thin cords visible in the foto I assume to be fusematch. These all lead towards the center. To have any effect the thin top-metal-casing has to be blown off first. If the leather-tubes did contain an incendiary composition, the effect would be of a bundle of forward shooting flames between 15 and 30cm in length. I assume that the tubes would be scattered when the topcasing is blown off, so that the scattered, burning tubes could start fires if they land on easily ignitable materials. Also I study the historical development of munitions since a long time, I have never before seen this type of construction. Somebody here mentioned literature about early english projectiles/munitions. Is there any book that covers the time between the 15th and 18th century regarding the development of british projectiles ? The brass fitting in the top center makes it appear more like a early 19th century construction, while the leather tubes inside point more towards the 17th century. Please keep us informed of any new developments in the identification of this ineresting construction.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
hi Bellifortis,thanks for your input,
Your ideas of how this may function may be correct,
I am no expert on this sort of thing,but was putting a common sense view on how it would work from examining the item.
It was several months ago I saw the item and have tried to describe it the best I can from memory and photos.
I think information on this sort of thing is a bit sketchy.I have never seen one of these before.
Hopefully someone will come forward with some definitive info.
Its an interesting historical item for sure.
Tim.
 
Hi Tim,
I felt free to mail your fotos to some experts on this sort of item here in Germany. I'm waiting for answers and will report here again as soon as I recieve additional info.
Bellifortis.
 
Hallo,
I just recieved some expert advice on the above item. I myselfe should have known it, because this is my expert department that I study since more than 30 years. But, I have never seen an actual find and know these items only from books. The item is not a military incendiary shell, but a civilian WATER-FIREWORKS-SHELL, dating to around the 17th or 18th century. See the attached drawing of Furttenbach 1643. Also Simienovic describes these shells in his monumental work "Ars magnae Artilleriae". I would very much like to get in contact with the owner to recieve some additional information.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
 

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Hallo,
I just recieved some expert advice on the above item. I myselfe should have known it, because this is my expert department that I study since more than 30 years. But, I have never seen an actual find and know these items only from books. The item is not a military incendiary shell, but a civilian WATER-FIREWORKS-SHELL, dating to around the 17th or 18th century. See the attached drawing of Furttenbach 1643. Also Simienovic describes these shells in his monumental work "Ars magnae Artilleriae". I would very much like to get in contact with the owner to recieve some additional information.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

Hi Bellifortis,
It does have some similarities to the drawing,and you are obviously knowledgable on the subject.
I would just say that there is no wood in the construction of this one,so could it be later manufactured?
Also Plymouth where this was found has a Naval history going back century's and is a heavily fortified estuary,
land of course has the biggest dockyard in the uk,(now biggest in Europe).So it does surprises me that it would not be military/naval.
This is certainly an interesting debatable piece.
Thanks for your research.
I will try and find out the exact location where it was found.
Cheers Tim.
 
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Apart from the location where this was found,another reason why I'm not yet convinced that this is civilian and not
a naval artillery piece,is that the brass plug is the same size and profile of these pictured here, which are used in
British RML shells.These two stamped RL (Royal laboritorys) Some are stamped WD (War dept)
If the plug can be unscrewed and these stampings found on the underside,surley that would prove this to be an
artillery projectile?
Tim.
 
The brass fixture is something that makes me wonder also. It looks more like 19th century. What was the purpose of these plugs ? Were they to be exchanged for a fuze in normal artillery projectiles ? The tubes inside the shell make no sense as a war-projectile. Already in the 18th century "Fire Stone" or "Rock Fire" and "Valenciennes Composition"(US terminology around 1859) "Geschmolzenzeug"(german terminology) was a standard incendiary composition and the Best available in black powder times. These were used up till the end of the 19th century as broken chunks mixed up with the bursting charge powder.Besides the incendiary effect on any burnable matter, it also had a good anti personnel effect because the burning chunks stuck to clothes and continued burning. This is 18th century "Napalm". The tubes would be a waste of the little available space inside a projectile. In Germany (which did not exist as a state then), more precisely in Prussia (in other states like Hannover it was the same) it was the artillery that manufactured all ammunition in their own laboratories (Spandau / Berlin) as well as fireworks. The artillery also displayed the fireworks up till around the end of the 18th century. In historical usage a FEUERWERKER was a pyrotechnician, an EOD man , a munitions manufacturer and an artillerist, all in personal union. Every new recruit, after his apprenticeship training had to manufacture a full complement of fireworks items and to display them as well as some military ammunition. Only after passing this test he became a full fledged artillerist. I assume that this state of affairs was the same in england in the 17th/18th century. I have never seen a construction like in the fotos mentioned in 19th century literature. In the 17th century there existed constructions, but with metallic tubes inside, which contained on top of some plack powder a metal projectile. The effect was the intermittent firing of small projectiles after the shell had landed somewhere. Not very effective. I do not know the history of the royal laboratory, but expect it's development to be similar to Prussian developments. Because of this, ammunition for war and fireworks for amusement often looked very much similar. Also a fireworks shell had to be projected from a mortar. Only the effect of the shell makes it a war-store or a fireworks shell for amusement. So even the RL stamp is no proof of this being a war-ammunition-item. For a definite answer one would have to examine the item, first under a microscope. This would give definite answers on the type of materials used (paper, parchment, leather, wood, type of metal). As a pyrotechnician I would examine the construction and content of the inside of the tubes. If anybody here knows of any 18th/19th century literature with descriptions of projectiles similar to ones pictured above, I would be grateful for any hint.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
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Is it a short thread and is it slightly tapered.
Would it match this fuze which is 1870 naval?
 

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thanks AE501,
The plug or fuze is unmarked on the outsid where the square key hole is.
but the plugs I have seen on RML shells do have a slight taper like your fuze picture.
If he will allow,I or the owner will see if the plug/fuze will unscrew,but of course we don't want to damage the item,and I
dont know how substantial it is,after all it is very old and sea recovered.
It may take a little while as I don't live that near him,but will report back on any progress.

Thanks also Bellifortis for your info and interest in this.
Tim.
 
I have been in contact with the owner of this item,he says he has tried to remove the plug/fuze without success.
He is afraid he will damage it if he persists.It was found by a friend of his.
Found near The Mewstone near Wembury just east of the Plymouth Breakwater,near to HMS Cambridge gunnery school.
This gunnery school has not been used for several years now.
He says that mortars would have been fired from there,so a firework type projectile is possible.
This is all the info I know.
Tim.
 
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