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Thread: 6.5x50 ID

  1. #11
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    Ken's book does refer to a 6.5mm "High Accuracy Ball" (see page 40):

    "Japanese documents also refer to a high accuracy ball round for use with the Type 97 sniper's rifle. No authenticated round of this type has been encountered but it is said to have used a round-nosed bullet and a special low-flash powder, made by adding potassium sulphate."

    He also discusses on page 41 the "reduced charge" 6.5mm ammo which has been claimed to be developed for the Type 3 and Type 11 machine guns. Ken is sceptical about this, stating that although ammo boxes specifically marked for the Type 3 or Type 11 do exist, there is no difference from standard ball in the ammo examined from a Type 11 box (I know that Ken pulled some rounds apart to compare propellant loads). He also says "no Japanese documents have been found which support the notion of reduced charge cartridges for these weapons".

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Tony Williams For This Useful Post:

    917601 (9th August 2016)

  3. #12
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    Interesting, so where does all this info lead me? My conclusions, ( please comment if there are other possibilities)- 1) round nose Type 30 bullets were at some time loaded into the Jap two stab crimped brass colored primed cases. I discount this because of the condition of the rounds. 2) The rounds were contract made for Russia (1916-1917) who requested type 30 projectiles,( and one site states they had the 2 stab crimped primers), however, it appears that contract ammo had copper colored primers, these do not. 3) could they be Russian manufacture ( or Brit manufacture) with Jap components. 4) they are Jap " hi- accuracy ball"...(like the modern day Norma Olympic rounds I pictured). No further ideas, and with no experience in cartridge collecting I simply do not know. Dead end?...I tend to think number two....anyway, didn't anyone like the resurrected Bren?....it had a few light strikes on the primers, no ignition, ( but it shot 3 inch groups at 100 yards- with surplus Greek HXP .303 70's dated ammo, somewhat amazing). ...troubleshooting that for the time being.....
    Last edited by 917601; 9th August 2016 at 10:30 PM.

  4. #13
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    I think this has become complicated because there are two very different cartridges being discussed in the same thread. The headstamped cartridges are without any doubt made in the UK in 1917 by Kynoch and were intended for export to Russia. However, not all went to Russia and some were retained in the UK for training use, some also went to the Royal Navy. These were designated .256" Ball Mk II in British service.
    I'm not sure about the other 'unmarked' rounds but it is still my belief that the roundnose Type 30 bullets are not original to the cases.....but, if they are original its a very interesting cartridge!
    I think it would be worthwhile posting this question on the IAA forum.
    Jim

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    917601 (10th August 2016)

  6. #14
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    For historical reasons we have here in Finland lot of pre 1918 Arisaka weapons and ammo.
    Japanese cartridges:
    -Type 30 rounds had a round nose bullet, no headstamps, primer without crimping or 2 crimps.
    -Type 38 rounds had a pointed bullet, no headstamps, primer as above.
    British cartridges:
    -All British cartridges has 3 dots on neck, Japanese did not have it.
    -Kings Norton Metal Co. purchased components from Japan and loaded them in UK. With pointed bullet. No headstamp.
    -Kynoch headstamps exist: K16 II, K17 II and K16. Round nose bullet.
    -Royal Laboratory, Woolwich loaded with round nose bullets. No headstamps.

    Kynoch developed an own round nose bullet, with groove on aft part. Japanese style round nose bullets were made as well.

    British used 2 different sizes of primers.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tmine35 For This Useful Post:

    917601 (10th August 2016), Jimiles (10th August 2016)

  8. #15
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    Tmine, that's great information nicely presented, thank you! That would suggest that the cartridges discussed could possibly be of Finnish origin, an option I hadn't considered.
    Jim

  9. #16
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    I wonder how many other countries made 6.5mm Arisaka ammunition? I know that Switzerland did, as I have a Solothurn round in my collection.

  10. #17
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    Tony, Switzerland is a new one on me, what is the headstamp on your cartridge? I've got several Chinese examples and a quick check of Municion.org shows that Czechoslovakia also made this calibre. Again, news to me.
    Jim

  11. #18
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    Jim, the headstamp is 21 S and the bullet a spitzer of a different shape to the Type 38.

  12. #19
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    Tony,
    What was the reason for Solothurn to make this calibre?

  13. #20
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    I have no idea. I saw this at a show a couple of years or so ago, and picked it up because it seemed so unusual. I only associate it with Solothurn because that's what the vendor told me.

 

 
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