Here is a really neat and hard to find inert aerial bomb. It is a British No 17 grenade which has been fitted with the optional tail boom to convert it into a aerial bomb. It is dated 1915. I hope you enjoy the pictures! Pat
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British No 17 Opera Hat Grenade / Aerial Bomb
- Thread starter wichitaslumlord
- Start date
Pat,
The converted grenade is for the Hay Pocket Howitzer, a small man portable spigot mortar. As well as conversions of the No 17 Grenade, new production was carried out. Ehen I get the chance I will put up a drawing of the howitzer.
The converted grenade is for the Hay Pocket Howitzer, a small man portable spigot mortar. As well as conversions of the No 17 Grenade, new production was carried out. Ehen I get the chance I will put up a drawing of the howitzer.
Thanks Norman,
I wondered why the tail boom had such a thick wall and smoothly finished bore. It now makes sense! Pat
I wondered why the tail boom had such a thick wall and smoothly finished bore. It now makes sense! Pat
Pat,
Herewith some paperwork on the grenade and howitzer. The first document is a Minute Sheet from the Trench Warfare Section of the Munitions Design Committee. The other sheets describe the howitzer. I hope you find them of interest.
I don't like to use the term 'rare' in connection with munitions but, although I had a couple of these in my reference collection (and a regular No 17), I only knew of one other survivor and that was in the Imperial War Museum. I would regard this as 'beyond rare'.
Herewith some paperwork on the grenade and howitzer. The first document is a Minute Sheet from the Trench Warfare Section of the Munitions Design Committee. The other sheets describe the howitzer. I hope you find them of interest.
I don't like to use the term 'rare' in connection with munitions but, although I had a couple of these in my reference collection (and a regular No 17), I only knew of one other survivor and that was in the Imperial War Museum. I would regard this as 'beyond rare'.
Norman,
Thank you for this great information. It's obvious this model was intended for use as a spigot mortar but is there any possibility it could have also been used as an aerial bomb? If so, it would have probably been dispensed by hand like the Brandt pneumatic rounds which can be found in period photos hanging in racks inside the cockpits of early aircraft. Just wondering........Thanks again, Pat
Thank you for this great information. It's obvious this model was intended for use as a spigot mortar but is there any possibility it could have also been used as an aerial bomb? If so, it would have probably been dispensed by hand like the Brandt pneumatic rounds which can be found in period photos hanging in racks inside the cockpits of early aircraft. Just wondering........Thanks again, Pat
It is certainly possible but thus far I have seen no record of it being used as an aerial bomb. The No 4 (and No 10) were used by the Royal Naval Air Service as aerial bombs, and dropping apparatus developed to make the task easier. The No 4 used a tail unit developed for the No 3 grenade so there is another candidate for use as an aerial bomb. The No 2 had the option of a rope tail for air dropping. So there was plenty of interest in using grenades as aerial bombs early in the war and surplus Hay projectiles may have found their was into the cockpit of some enthusiastic RNAS or RFC pilot. As I write this I have a vague recollection of a picture in "War Illustrated" showing a Hay bomb - I will look for it later.
Pat,
I was looking at the WW1 Ordnance Board/Committee Annual Reports for a 106 Fuze enquiry and tripped over some text on the Hay Pocket Howitzer. You may be interested to know that the Grenade, Hand, No 1 Mark II (with some adaptation) was used as a projectile for some trials with the Pocket Howitzer.
I was looking at the WW1 Ordnance Board/Committee Annual Reports for a 106 Fuze enquiry and tripped over some text on the Hay Pocket Howitzer. You may be interested to know that the Grenade, Hand, No 1 Mark II (with some adaptation) was used as a projectile for some trials with the Pocket Howitzer.
That is interesting indeed. They would have needed a stronger spring under the firing cap as the setback of launching could have easily resulted in premature functioning. Thanks again, Pat
Pat,
Thanks. The engineers and scientists at Woolwich had some experience of discharging a No 1 Grenade* from a rifle in order to produce a rifle grenade that did not infringe Hales patents so they had must have done some work on the subject of cap set-back etc. Of course that does not automatically mean that the 1915/16 team working with the Hay howitzer had the data of the rifle grenade trials but, given civilians working in the Arsenal tended to spend their working life there, it would be nice to think that it wasn't a complete case of reinventing the wheel.
* This was about 1910 and predates the introduction of grenade 'numbering' so the nomenclature would have been Grenade, Hand (Mark I).
Thanks. The engineers and scientists at Woolwich had some experience of discharging a No 1 Grenade* from a rifle in order to produce a rifle grenade that did not infringe Hales patents so they had must have done some work on the subject of cap set-back etc. Of course that does not automatically mean that the 1915/16 team working with the Hay howitzer had the data of the rifle grenade trials but, given civilians working in the Arsenal tended to spend their working life there, it would be nice to think that it wasn't a complete case of reinventing the wheel.
* This was about 1910 and predates the introduction of grenade 'numbering' so the nomenclature would have been Grenade, Hand (Mark I).