German 2cm HK Projectile With Two FES Bands

[oldshotandshell]

Any information on this German 2cm HK projectile would be appreciated. Projectile weight is 90g and length is 61mm. The two bands are FES, both 5mm wide, the lower band is 13mm above the base, the upper band is 30mm from the base. The projectile has a tracer element. Condition is such that no stamped markings are visible. Is it for Flak, MG151 or both? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank you!

 

[RichardB]

Nice find oldshotandshell..... I think it's the rarest of the three 2cm Pzgr40's and I believe simply suffixed "Lang" eg 2cm Pzgr40 Lang

i have a picture of all three attached below, and individual pictures of all three.
Having said that I'm slightly sceptical there aren't a few more variants, but perhaps experimental. No doubt someone here will know more

 

[blackwatch]

Hasag-2 cm(flak 38) Pzgr. 40 mit Fes Zentrierring , length 62 mm, weight 92 g, core 12x41,8. Versuch (experimental}

 

[RichardB]

Hi blackwatch,
That's interesting it's lighter than the shorter version, the middle one in my picture. Which is about 102g ...that suggests a smaller tungsten core, but still not steel. However I don't believe it's experimental as there are too many (which still isn't a lot) in photographs

 

[blackwatch]

The middle one in your picture is made by Polte.
Polte-2cm Pzgr. 40 n.A


Source. Book Die patrone 20x138B ihre Verwendung in der 2 cm Flak 30 und 2 cm flak 38 sowie in weiteren Waffen band 1 by J B H Anderhub

 

[pysall]

I agree with blackwatch - 2cm Flak Hasag experimental.

 

[oldshotandshell]

Thank you Gentlemen. Now sitting in a brass Flak case as required. Compliments to all.

 

[RichardB]

Blackwatch do you have the correct nomenclature for all three rounds in my first picture..... Do you also have drawings of each by any chance ?

 

[orpheus72]

I have drawings for some of the 2cm Pzgr:

2cm Pzgr. 40
2cm Pzgr. 40 n.A.
2cm Pzgr. 40 Üb.n.A.

 

[RichardB]

Excellent, thank you Orpheus72
so with the practice Üb projectile

2cm Pzgr. 40
2cm Pzgr. 40 n.A.
2cm Pzgr. 40 Üb.n.A.
2cm Pzgr. 40 mit Fes Zentrierring

 

[RichardB]

Oldshotandsheel, it seems you found yours about a week before I found mine....
so I can finally take a group photo of the three projectiles together to improve upon the old black and white image.
(All are inert cases and tracers etc - as per post 2 in this thread)

If anyone has the 2cm Pzgr. 40 Üb.n.A. id be very much interested


Rich

 

[RichardB]

Hi Blackwatcgh/Pysall

By chance I came across the following table showing no less than 10 different type of Hasag 2cm Pzgr40 mit Fes Zentrierring of varying lengths and weights.
As I suspected (frankly a guess) there are too many of the longer 2cm Pzgr40s to be experimental. The one in my photo and I suspect most other photos is 78mm tall which is the only one marked "Released to Mass Production" / "Freigabe zur massenfertigung" under the eingeführt data. I also had opportunity to measure a second, and this too was ~78mm.

So at this time, I believe there were four NON-experimental versions, 3 Combat and 1 Practice -- happy to be corrected if anyone has other information

2cm Pzgr. 40
2cm Pzgr. 40 n.A.
2cm Pzgr. 40 Üb.n.A.
2cm Pzgr. 40 mit Fes Zentrierring