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  1. #21
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    Hi Tony, thank you for the additional information. I was familiair with the AMX-13 AA, but did not realize it used the KCB cannon.
    Just to check for my understanding. The Oerlikon KCB has been used in other applications, French AA and with the Royal Navy. Was the specific round I have, also used for those aplications, or developed specifically for the German Matador project? I looked around, and I did not find any AP round being advertised for the Korean AA gun. Just HE types and TP.

  2. #22
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    The Oerlikon KCB and its ammo has a long and strange history. It started with a Hispano-Suiza project just before WW2, the HS 411 (the cartridge case seems to be just a necked-out and slightly lengthened version of the 25 x 163 Hotchkiss AA round). Work on this stopped with the fall of France, but data was sent to HS factories in Switzerland and Britain (BMARCo). At least one gun was demonstrated in Britain in 1942 (I don't know if it was an import or made by BMARCo) and several batches of ammo were made for it by Royal Laboratories. The British government rejected it, so work switched to HSS (Switzerland) which changed the designation to HS 830, later developed into the HS 831. These initially used brass-case ammo, with steel-cased coming later. Round about 1970 Oerlikon took over HSS and the gun was renamed KCB. It now, of course, belongs to Rheinmetall. At about the same time, the cartridge was adopted for the British Rarden AFV cannon, only with a brass case again.

    The KCB has seen most use in naval AA mountings, as I said. About 160 Emerlec 30 twin mountings were made and used by several navies, also single (MSI) and twin (BMARCo) mountings have been used by the RN and several other navies.

    A wide range of different ammo has been made for the KCB over the years (plus a different range for the Rarden), the standard warshots being HEI and SAPHEI. The SAPHEI uses a delayed-action base fuze and has a windshield (ballistic cap) over the thick-walled steel projectile which contains 20 g of Hexal P30.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tony Williams For This Useful Post:

    doppz92 (27th January 2018), Haenosaki (20th December 2016)

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Williams View Post
    The Oerlikon KCB and its ammo has a long and strange history. It started with a Hispano-Suiza project just before WW2, the HS 411 (the cartridge case seems to be just a necked-out and slightly lengthened version of the 25 x 163 Hotchkiss AA round). Work on this stopped with the fall of France, but data was sent to HS factories in Switzerland and Britain (BMARCo). At least one gun was demonstrated in Britain in 1942 (I don't know if it was an import or made by BMARCo) and several batches of ammo were made for it by Royal Laboratories. The British government rejected it, so work switched to HSS (Switzerland) which changed the designation to HS 830, later developed into the HS 831. These initially used brass-case ammo, with steel-cased coming later. Round about 1970 Oerlikon took over HSS and the gun was renamed KCB. It now, of course, belongs to Rheinmetall. At about the same time, the cartridge was adopted for the British Rarden AFV cannon, only with a brass case again.

    The KCB has seen most use in naval AA mountings, as I said. About 160 Emerlec 30 twin mountings were made and used by several navies, also single (MSI) and twin (BMARCo) mountings have been used by the RN and several other navies.

    A wide range of different ammo has been made for the KCB over the years (plus a different range for the Rarden), the standard warshots being HEI and SAPHEI. The SAPHEI uses a delayed-action base fuze and has a windshield (ballistic cap) over the thick-walled steel projectile which contains 20 g of Hexal P30.
    Tony, thank you for the great information. It is always nice to learn more about the background of the guns and ammo involved.

  5. #24
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    Latest additions

    Hi All,
    The latest additions. Bit of a lucky find, as I did not know exactly what I was getting. I knew they were penetrators, but the exact type took me a bit of puzzling.
    I think I have them correctly identified now:
    20x139 dm43 API-T
    76mm HVAP UBR-354P
    85mm HVAP UBR-365P
    100mm APDS 3BM8 / 3BM11
    125 APFSDS-T 3BM22
    ‚Äčall.jpg

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Haenosaki For This Useful Post:

    SG500 (9th January 2017), Spaceinvader (10th January 2017)

  7. #25
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    I have no words to describe how jealous I am! those are absolutely amazing!!

  8. #26
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceinvader View Post
    I have no words to describe how jealous I am! those are absolutely amazing!!
    Thanks. I was really lucky. The guy selling them had no idea of their origin and sold them as scrap. I only recognized the 20x139 core, the others I was unfamiliar with. Took me the better part of two weeks of measuring and puzzling to get them right. Mainly because I was first looking at western AP cores. Once I got the tip to look at Russian rounds, it all fell in place. (thanks Dave).

  9. #27
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    Some new additions:
    76mm HVAP-T
    25x137 APFSDS-T M935A2
    25x137 APDS NR124C1
    two 20x139 API-T
    20x139 APDS (unknown type with short penetrator)
    hvap-t.jpgapfsds-t.jpgapds-t.jpg20x139 API-T.jpg20x139 API-T 2.jpg20x139 APDS.jpg

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    doppz92 (9th April 2017)

  11. #28
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    Hello All,
    Back with the latest additions to the AP collection:
    100mm 3BM8 APDS
    30x113B AP (2x)
    30x173 MPDS (2x)
    75mm Recoilless rifle HEAT
    20170613_191509.jpg20170613_191248.jpg20170613_191258.jpg20170613_191229.jpg20170613_191222.jpg20170613_191139.jpg

  12. #29
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    what does MPDS mean ??

    Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by military EOD personnel .


    Site administrator. damned if i do..damned if i dont


    BOCN HELPING TO PROMOTE SAFE RESPONSIBLE ORDNANCE COLLECTING


  13. #30
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    Missile piercing discarding sabot.
    Regards, DJH

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to pzgr40 For This Useful Post:

    doppz92 (27th January 2018)

 

 
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