Welcome to the Inert Ordnance Collectors.
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789
Results 81 to 90 of 90
  1. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Leiden
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 107 Times in 43 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolchonok View Post
    are sure that is 120mm DM13?



    it's look like 105mm APFSDS



    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...smoothbore-gun



    btw can you measure DM43 length from tip to tail ?
    Definitely 120mm.
    Size comparison with a 105mm M735:
    DM12vsM735.jpg

    The DM43 is 71mm long. I am not sure it is an actual DM43, might be a test model.

  2. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    113
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 152 Times in 59 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Haenosaki View Post
    Definitely 120mm.
    Size comparison with a 105mm M735:

    you can have sabot 120mm, but dart itself look like 105mm APFSDS for german smoothbore 105mm(look at fins of 120 and 105mm)



    Quote Originally Posted by Haenosaki View Post
    The DM43 is 71mm long. I am not sure it is an actual DM43, might be a test model.
    710mm long ? strange, and diameter ?

  3. #83
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Leiden
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 107 Times in 43 Posts

    120mm DM13

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolchonok View Post
    you can have sabot 120mm, but dart itself look like 105mm APFSDS for german smoothbore 105mm(look at fins of 120 and 105mm)



    Or, the 105 prototype was not continued and further developed into the 120mm DM13. I have seen the exact same DM13 at the WTD91 in Meppen. This sabot type is not often seen, I think it is a test type. Production DM13 have a shorter front part.
    So maybe we are both right, the dart started out as a 105mm experimental, further developed into 120mm and later taken into production as DM13 with a different sabot and tail assembly. What I have is probably the in between version.
    Below picture is from the WTD91, the fin shape of that 120mm DM13 is the same as the one I own:
    800px-120_mm_Leopard_2_Munition_2.jpg
    Last edited by Haenosaki; 24th December 2019 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Added WTD 91 picture

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Haenosaki For This Useful Post:

    Wolchonok (24th December 2019)

  5. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Leiden
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 107 Times in 43 Posts
    Hi All,
    Latest addition: 60x410 APFSDS for the Chilean 60mmm HVMS gun. Originally developed by IMI of Israel and OTO Melara of Italy, it was not taken into production by Israel or Italy. When Chili wanted to upgrade their M24s and M50s, they were offered the 60mm HVMS gun. As such, they were the only operatioal owners of this gun and its ammunition. (please anybody correct me if I am wrong). If anyone has a correct case for this projectile and is willing to sell, please let me know. Thank you.
    060.01.jpg

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Haenosaki For This Useful Post:

    apfsds (30th December 2019), SG500 (30th December 2019), Wolchonok (1st January 2020)

  7. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,401
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 529 Times in 289 Posts
    You are correct: Chile was the only user. A little more detail about this:

    After all of this work, the only customer for the system was Chile, which bought a manually-loaded version of the IMI gun for rearming its (ex-Israeli) M50 Sherman tanks (sometimes designated M60), and a version firing a three-round burst to their M24 Chaffee light tanks, which were in service for the last decade of the 20th century. Subsequently, the Chaffee gun was installed in a Chilean-built Piranha 6x6 light AFV, but it is unclear whether or not this saw service.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Tony Williams For This Useful Post:

    apfsds (30th December 2019)

  9. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    447
    Thanks
    918
    Thanked 255 Times in 115 Posts
    Really beautiful round, one of my favorite. I have never seen one stenciled as "M51," only as "M54." Really interesting. Curious, is there a tracer well at the base of the fin assembly on yours?

    Jason

  10. #87
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Leiden
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 107 Times in 43 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by apfsds View Post
    Really beautiful round, one of my favorite. I have never seen one stenciled as "M51," only as "M54." Really interesting. Curious, is there a tracer well at the base of the fin assembly on yours?

    Jason
    Hi Jason,
    Yes, it has a tracer.
    Besides the M51 and M54 difference, I have seen another different type designation. Unfortunately, I did not think to make a good picture of the whole text:
    IMG_20180609_113829.jpg

    This picture was also taken at WTD91 in Meppen. A place where they test different types of ammunition before it enters the Bundewehr inventory (so, it seems the 60mm apfsds was tested in Germany, but not taken into operational use).

    Dominique

  11. #88
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    447
    Thanks
    918
    Thanked 255 Times in 115 Posts
    This is all so fascinating to learn. I have been studying this round for so many years and have never seen these two other variants (Type Designations).

    Kinda makes some sense about being tested in, Germany, as well as in the, US by, Aberdeen. There was a guy in, Germany, who had an entire case of the M54 Dummy APFSDS rounds as well as the HE Dummies. I believe he was the original source of most of the specimens in collections. Perhaps the Dummies were designated M54 and the M51 example like yours and possibly the 2nd variant that you just posted, were the type designations for the tactical specimens? All of the M54 Dummies were built without fin assemblies and had an internal rod connecting the dummy primer to the projectile that threaded into the threaded sub-projectile dart's rear, where the stabilizer fins were supposed to be attached.

    Either way, congrats big time on this important addition to your collection! ITS BEAUTIFUL! :-)

    Jason
    Last edited by apfsds; 2nd January 2020 at 08:28 PM.

  12. #89
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Leiden
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 107 Times in 43 Posts
    Hello All,
    The complete collection as it currently stands:
    1-All-AP.jpg

    Regards,
    Dominique

  13. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Haenosaki For This Useful Post:

    917601 (14th January 2020), apfsds (13th January 2020), doppz92 (14th January 2020), Nabob (13th January 2020), ron3350 (13th January 2020), SG500 (14th January 2020)

  14. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    447
    Thanks
    918
    Thanked 255 Times in 115 Posts
    INCREADIBLY AWESOME!

    Jason

 

 
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 789

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top